The Black Dog - mental health awareness
- Thread starter SamT
- Start date
PeteHall
Moderator
JAA said:lots of people have it much worse than not being able to go caving. So if that?s your biggest worry, you can politely get a f**king grip.X
For many (myself included), not being able to go caving is definitely not the biggest problem, however being able to go caving is the medication required to cope with everything else that's going on.
A friend got in touch after a post I made earlier in this thread. We went caving last night and the positive change that has had for both of us is huge. For me, it was a much needed top-up of medication. For my friend who hasn't been caving since the first lockdown, it seems to have completely reversed a serious downhill spiral. I really hope that this positive impact lasts.
Sorry if this is a bit of a clich?, but what we all need to remember is that while we are all in the same storm, we are all in different boats. None of us really know what's going on in anyone else's boat or what they need to do to keep it afloat. A bit of compassion and understanding on all sides would go a long way. What works for you might not work for someone else. :kiss2:
Duck ditch
New member
I live alone. The only person I have touched since the outbreak is my elderly mother. When out of lockdown I can visit her provided I have kept away from people for 14 days. Honesty counts because I couldn?t live myself if I took the virus into the housing complex and killed other peoples grannies. I am then allowed to enter the sheltered complex and wash, clean, cut hair and generally look after her broken heart. Other times I can?t see her.
I walk socially distanced with one other person. I mentioned that I hadn?t touched anyone for 9 months to her and suddenly I broke down. I?ve had enough of the blumming thing. We all have. I know other people,s situations are worse.
As a covid nazi I still think that the best way out is to lockdown hard. I feel it?s the quickest way back to normality. I?ve got used to name calling. My dad would spin in his grave if he thought I was a Nazi.
As I have always said, caving is a great release. All Outdoor activities are. Please do it safely within a tight bubble.
I walk socially distanced with one other person. I mentioned that I hadn?t touched anyone for 9 months to her and suddenly I broke down. I?ve had enough of the blumming thing. We all have. I know other people,s situations are worse.
As a covid nazi I still think that the best way out is to lockdown hard. I feel it?s the quickest way back to normality. I?ve got used to name calling. My dad would spin in his grave if he thought I was a Nazi.
As I have always said, caving is a great release. All Outdoor activities are. Please do it safely within a tight bubble.
pwhole
Well-known member
I managed a masked-up, one-armed, two-second hug with my favourite person on a railway platform in the countryside a month ago, and that was my first touch of anyone in months - even then she insisted on doing it out-of-view of the train still standing there, in case any of the passengers saw us. Jealous! That kept me going for about a fortnight, but I could do with another one now. I see so few people I know I'm safe, but it's not like I can print up my own vaccine passport
ZombieCake
Well-known member
Some common sense from our German friends. Metaphors can apply to all sorts of professions and outlooks. Don't need long hair and a penchant for things go to 11 for the principles to apply. Weird thing is I'm also eating less (as others in the videos) since we've been shut away as there's less to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gfhrIRZoyA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gfhrIRZoyA
thehungrytroglobite
Well-known member
Thank you for this thread! (Only just seen it now) While everyone's experiences are different, it is lovely to see such open discourse about mental health.
I suffer from a mental illness characterised by emotional dysregulation and an intense fear of abandonment. People with emotional dysregulation experience emotions at much higher intensities than people without it and it takes them longer to 'regulate' (ie. calm down) their emotions when in distress. This is primarily due to the impact of early traumatic experiences that affect the brain whilst it is developing. This means that in situations where most people would feel happiness, I feel intense euphoria; where most people would feel sad, I feel deep depression etc. I can wake up feeling on top of the world and head over heels in love with everyone & everything, and a couple hours later feel like there is no point in living anymore. My fear of abandonment & rejection sensitivity makes things doubly painful - someone not replying to me can make my heart feel like it is shattering into a million pieces, or a shift in someone's tone of voice can send me into a full-blown panic attack. I have, on many occasions, collapsed in the middle of the street screaming into the pavement - NOT because I am simply 'overreacting' but because the pain that I am capable of feeling is so intense it feels like physical pain sometimes. All of this of course has the potential to impact every area of my life in problematic ways, and sometimes I wonder if I will ever be capable of maintaining a stable human relationship/connection or if I should just go live in a cave and be a hermit for the rest of my life (doesn't sound like a bad option tbh).
There is a positive side to this though. While I do think this illness will make life difficult for the rest of my life, a year of DBT (which someone else already mentioned) really turned my life around. I would highly recommend researching DBT skills such as radical acceptance, opposite action, emotional validation etc. to anyone struggling with mental health. I can also see too that my illness has some benefits to it. Something as simple as a leaf falling off a tree can bring me intense peace and happiness. I feel like I experience the world more vividly because of this, and see the beauty in everything due to my 'emotional HD vision'. My passion for things makes me extremely motivated in the things I care about (like caving, lol) and when I'm excited about something the people around me respond as if it is infectious which makes social interactions and making friends very easy for me.
Two sides to every coin I guess. I'm glad I can see both sides of it!
I suffer from a mental illness characterised by emotional dysregulation and an intense fear of abandonment. People with emotional dysregulation experience emotions at much higher intensities than people without it and it takes them longer to 'regulate' (ie. calm down) their emotions when in distress. This is primarily due to the impact of early traumatic experiences that affect the brain whilst it is developing. This means that in situations where most people would feel happiness, I feel intense euphoria; where most people would feel sad, I feel deep depression etc. I can wake up feeling on top of the world and head over heels in love with everyone & everything, and a couple hours later feel like there is no point in living anymore. My fear of abandonment & rejection sensitivity makes things doubly painful - someone not replying to me can make my heart feel like it is shattering into a million pieces, or a shift in someone's tone of voice can send me into a full-blown panic attack. I have, on many occasions, collapsed in the middle of the street screaming into the pavement - NOT because I am simply 'overreacting' but because the pain that I am capable of feeling is so intense it feels like physical pain sometimes. All of this of course has the potential to impact every area of my life in problematic ways, and sometimes I wonder if I will ever be capable of maintaining a stable human relationship/connection or if I should just go live in a cave and be a hermit for the rest of my life (doesn't sound like a bad option tbh).
There is a positive side to this though. While I do think this illness will make life difficult for the rest of my life, a year of DBT (which someone else already mentioned) really turned my life around. I would highly recommend researching DBT skills such as radical acceptance, opposite action, emotional validation etc. to anyone struggling with mental health. I can also see too that my illness has some benefits to it. Something as simple as a leaf falling off a tree can bring me intense peace and happiness. I feel like I experience the world more vividly because of this, and see the beauty in everything due to my 'emotional HD vision'. My passion for things makes me extremely motivated in the things I care about (like caving, lol) and when I'm excited about something the people around me respond as if it is infectious which makes social interactions and making friends very easy for me.
Two sides to every coin I guess. I'm glad I can see both sides of it!
CavefestUK
Member
I have just read a host of comments in this thread and its made me feel a whole lot better.
I have been away from the forum for a few months because my mental health took a downwards spiral. I have suffered from depression and anxiety related issues for nearly 25yrs, and thats only the diagnosed years.
Being a caver, and knowing how clicky the community can be, i was taken aback somewhat when i was told about this thread. About time we all opened up and shared something as serious as dealing with mental health.
I wont bore you with my story, (maybe another time) but its a comfort to see this thread open.
I have been away from the forum for a few months because my mental health took a downwards spiral. I have suffered from depression and anxiety related issues for nearly 25yrs, and thats only the diagnosed years.
Being a caver, and knowing how clicky the community can be, i was taken aback somewhat when i was told about this thread. About time we all opened up and shared something as serious as dealing with mental health.
I wont bore you with my story, (maybe another time) but its a comfort to see this thread open.
CavefestUK
Member
kay said:
I am a sufferer of this problem. Its almost a joke now as I have learned to accept these thoughts are simply a part of my day.
Some days, they beat me down to a dribbling mess of emotion, and that's OK because it will pass. Other days it makes me feel strong and determined, but they are rare.
Sharing with people helps sometimes, but I have also learnt to be selective with who you share with.
I feel like I'm taking a massive risk sharing on the forum, but you also have to be brave and try to make changes that may help.
royfellows
Well-known member
This is an interesting thread and I am surprised at the extent of this.
These kind of problems appear to my perception to becoming more prevalent
I am wondering if modern life has anything to do with it?
I grew up in the 1950s and 60s when life was a lot more simple and straightforward, if somewhat harsh.
Whatever piece of household goods, electrical or whatever, that you purchased it didn't really need any instructions, you could see how to use it just by looking at it.
Whatever you wanted to do, as long as it didn't affect anyone else, you just went ahead and did it.
Nowadays, everything that one wants to do seems to have hoops and hurdles attached to it.
Are we, as a society, engineering our own destruction?
These kind of problems appear to my perception to becoming more prevalent
I am wondering if modern life has anything to do with it?
I grew up in the 1950s and 60s when life was a lot more simple and straightforward, if somewhat harsh.
Whatever piece of household goods, electrical or whatever, that you purchased it didn't really need any instructions, you could see how to use it just by looking at it.
Whatever you wanted to do, as long as it didn't affect anyone else, you just went ahead and did it.
Nowadays, everything that one wants to do seems to have hoops and hurdles attached to it.
Are we, as a society, engineering our own destruction?
sinker
New member
royfellows said:
Engineering our own destruction? Ultimately yes probably.
Shorter term; are we engineering our own evolution? Or is it evolution engineering us? Is the tail wagging the dog? Discuss....
As the father of "early 20's" and "late teens" children/young people and having extensive expert knowledge of what its like (having been one myself
) I would say that its a bloody miracle that they have turned out as well as they have, considering the pressure put on them from society, peers, 'soshul meeja' etc etc.We have coached those lads in life and never taken our eye off the ball. Other parents have let go of the reins through divorce, lazyness, lack of time, lack of interest, lack of knowledge or lack of parenting skills. Those young people are now having a much tougher time of it and many are struggling with mental and emotional health issues. Will this spiral out of control over the generations and lead to our destruction? It will certainly lead to the world looking a very different place. But then according to my 87 year old mother, every generation says the same thing in the same way that every generation thinks they are the first to have discovered sex, drugs and music!
Wider mental health picture, as discussed above.....? It's talked about more, its more acceptable to discuss it, more "things" now have names so are easier to identify with. Would that be fair to say?
Who would have thought that I would be discussing this on ANY kind of forum before the internet was invented. What other forum was there? Pub? School? Church? Work?
Now who would have thought that we would be discussing this on a caving website?
Some people seem to be more resilient to things. I think that I am; my resilience has certainly been tested quite severely over the years starting with the death of a parent when I was 11 years old and there have been lots of other things over the years but so far at the age of 54 I feel bulletproof. Maybe its my turn next....?
Brains
Well-known member
I am sure in the past there was a lot of under reporting of MH issues, with many things under a taboo.
The pioneering climber Menlove Edwards is perhaps notable as being known to be a sufferer, and from an older age Jayne Eyre reflects the social stigma and response to issues. If there was a suicide in the family it would be hushed up, the body consigned to un-consecrated ground. Domestic abuse, rape, unmarried mothers, alcoholism were all common in the past as now, but those that could comment on it always seemed to imply / reason it was down to being poor or of inferior class. We are now in more enlightened times (?) and real help is more available, prejudice is waning. Opening up is healthy
The pioneering climber Menlove Edwards is perhaps notable as being known to be a sufferer, and from an older age Jayne Eyre reflects the social stigma and response to issues. If there was a suicide in the family it would be hushed up, the body consigned to un-consecrated ground. Domestic abuse, rape, unmarried mothers, alcoholism were all common in the past as now, but those that could comment on it always seemed to imply / reason it was down to being poor or of inferior class. We are now in more enlightened times (?) and real help is more available, prejudice is waning. Opening up is healthy
pwhole
Well-known member
I think in many ways forums like this can be helpful to those struggling, as almost by definition, you don't know most of the contributors in real life. So if you can get over the hurdle of actually bringing it up, it's possibly more useful discussing it with relative strangers than with good friends or family. They may already know and be unable to help, or already know and are already helping, or may not have a clue there's a problem at all, but may not react helpfully if they did know. Losing friends can be enough of a fear to not risk it, and so venting off on a 'common interest' site like this could be very helpful for some. Clearly the audience isn't hostile, and those who can't help or who aren't interested don't have to participate, and those who are can. And it's free, unlike a shrink.
One of my ex-on-off girlfriends had terrible problems with depression, long before I met her, and not as much after, thankfully, but it was always extremely difficult for me to fathom what the problem was, as whenever she described it, none of it sounded that bad (to me). Eventually I met her dad, and part of it at least was then explained, as he was a bit of a nut-job, and was (psychologically) bullying her in private (they all worked on a family business). He didn't really like me - not because I was hostile, but as I was clearly smart and 'together', and was easily capable of seeing through his bullshit and conveying that to her, which I did.
We didn't become a real item as we lived hundreds of miles apart, and I couldn't have coped with the stress of her losing it regularly anyway - going out with someone to try and keep them sane isn't sufficient justification, all things considered. But she never sorted it out, and eventually committed suicide, which was a ridiculous waste of a life and a large talent. And I'm sure it ruined the rest of her parents' lives too, but hey-ho, they had their chance. Even now, nearly twenty years later, apart from her dad being a twat, I can't see what the real problem was, other than total 'ennui'.
I've never really had any issues with my parents though, and grew up poor, working-class and Catholic, so maybe that's it? Getting 'IRA' chalked on your school blazer back in Jubilee year by the local proddy schoolkids can be character-building. They didn't have no web forums then - I had to go fishing
One of my ex-on-off girlfriends had terrible problems with depression, long before I met her, and not as much after, thankfully, but it was always extremely difficult for me to fathom what the problem was, as whenever she described it, none of it sounded that bad (to me). Eventually I met her dad, and part of it at least was then explained, as he was a bit of a nut-job, and was (psychologically) bullying her in private (they all worked on a family business). He didn't really like me - not because I was hostile, but as I was clearly smart and 'together', and was easily capable of seeing through his bullshit and conveying that to her, which I did.
We didn't become a real item as we lived hundreds of miles apart, and I couldn't have coped with the stress of her losing it regularly anyway - going out with someone to try and keep them sane isn't sufficient justification, all things considered. But she never sorted it out, and eventually committed suicide, which was a ridiculous waste of a life and a large talent. And I'm sure it ruined the rest of her parents' lives too, but hey-ho, they had their chance. Even now, nearly twenty years later, apart from her dad being a twat, I can't see what the real problem was, other than total 'ennui'.
I've never really had any issues with my parents though, and grew up poor, working-class and Catholic, so maybe that's it? Getting 'IRA' chalked on your school blazer back in Jubilee year by the local proddy schoolkids can be character-building. They didn't have no web forums then - I had to go fishing
royfellows
Well-known member
Maybe still on my own website somewhere, I advise dumping facebook and signing up to a hobby website like UKC. I think our kindred spirit makes us more tolerant to each other. I expected the BREXIT thread to go up in flames, but it didn't.
cavemanmike
Well-known member
Disassociation is the best way to vent something. You don't know them, they don't know you so there is less judgement
PeteHall
Moderator
For this reason, I used to find hitch hiking a really good mental reset.
While waiting for a lift, the only thing to worry about is when you'll get a lift. Once you get a lift, you have an hour or so with someone who you'll never see again. Mostly people only stop to give you a lift if they want to talk. It's often as much for them as it is for you. I always stop for a hitcher if I'm going the right way, but even pre-covid, there weren't many out...
While waiting for a lift, the only thing to worry about is when you'll get a lift. Once you get a lift, you have an hour or so with someone who you'll never see again. Mostly people only stop to give you a lift if they want to talk. It's often as much for them as it is for you. I always stop for a hitcher if I'm going the right way, but even pre-covid, there weren't many out...
bagpuss
Member
My way of coping with life pre covid was to walk in isolated places, trips to the mountains and caving. I live in a city and there is no-where quiet to walk now. The woods by my house have become playgrounds, massively eroded and full of people that don't understand how to leave no trace or protect them, pre Covid it was a safe haven from the noise of life. I'm autistic and struggle with noise. Throughout the summer we were disturbed by really loud garden parties constantly. Although we can drive for exercise I get very anxious about occasionally needing to be driven a short distance in the city. I fear catching Covid as I know I couldn't cope alone if hospitalised. I had pre existing mental health problems before Covid and relapsed in September. Accessing help was difficult as although I was under health services the mental health hospitals/crisis houses were at breaking point. Eventually I did end up in hospital. 1 week after discharge we went into lockdown, which changed most of my discharge support. I haven't caved in a year and I miss my caving friends. I did get to the mountains in the summer and like Pete said earlier in the thread it massively lifted my mental health. I don't know how to manage my mental illness without free-er access to the outdoors. We have to stay living in a city due to family, but I feel envy of those who live in the countryside. Then I feel guilt for feeling envy as I know we could be far worse off.
I have got some enjoyment out of photography and run an online photography group for autistic people, a clip on macro lens for my phone was a diversion for a while. There's also some decent mental health support from local NHS 24/7 helplines set up.
I have got some enjoyment out of photography and run an online photography group for autistic people, a clip on macro lens for my phone was a diversion for a while. There's also some decent mental health support from local NHS 24/7 helplines set up.
pwhole
Well-known member
Here's an interesting one on the mental illness impact of the pandemic from a team based at Sheffield Uni - surprisingly not that bad overall, though that does conform with my own personal experiences - and including the people I socialise with, obviously:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/09/pandemic-mental-health-problems-research-coronavirus
https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/psychology-consortium-covid19
At the same time, it is important to recognise that average levels of psychological symptoms in the population could never be particularly informative. Even if there really were a tidal wave of mental illness washing over the population, what would anyone be able to do about it (it would not be possible to install a clinical psychologist in every neighbourhood)? Instead, when we use advanced statistical methods to discover different patterns of change, we see that the majority of the population (56.5% in the case of anxiety and depression) have been resilient, showing no evidence of mental illness at any time. These are contrasted with a small group who have been unwell throughout (6.5%), some who have deteriorated after starting with low (17%) or moderate symptoms (11.5%) and some who have shown considerable improvement in their mental health (8.5%). So, in total, about a quarter of the population is doing badly. This picture of what we might call ?different slopes for different folks? does not look like a tsunami.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/09/pandemic-mental-health-problems-research-coronavirus
https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/psychology-consortium-covid19
At the same time, it is important to recognise that average levels of psychological symptoms in the population could never be particularly informative. Even if there really were a tidal wave of mental illness washing over the population, what would anyone be able to do about it (it would not be possible to install a clinical psychologist in every neighbourhood)? Instead, when we use advanced statistical methods to discover different patterns of change, we see that the majority of the population (56.5% in the case of anxiety and depression) have been resilient, showing no evidence of mental illness at any time. These are contrasted with a small group who have been unwell throughout (6.5%), some who have deteriorated after starting with low (17%) or moderate symptoms (11.5%) and some who have shown considerable improvement in their mental health (8.5%). So, in total, about a quarter of the population is doing badly. This picture of what we might call ?different slopes for different folks? does not look like a tsunami.
royfellows
Well-known member
Regardless of my earlier posting i am coping quite well.
I am a rather singular person, perfectly happy in my own company. I went into last year with an awareness of a veritable mountain of jobs that needed doing, and that I wanted to do, on my home.
So I am quite busy through both lockdowns.
Also, I started a project visiting old colliery sites around my area, the cannock Chase coalfield. I have a very interesting site with extant remains within a short walk of my home.
Two other sites about 2 miles away. I want to survey them.
I also have my martial arts and am learning advanced katas from a Youtube sensei and books.
I have to consider myself lucky in the circumstances.
I am a rather singular person, perfectly happy in my own company. I went into last year with an awareness of a veritable mountain of jobs that needed doing, and that I wanted to do, on my home.
So I am quite busy through both lockdowns.
Also, I started a project visiting old colliery sites around my area, the cannock Chase coalfield. I have a very interesting site with extant remains within a short walk of my home.
Two other sites about 2 miles away. I want to survey them.
I also have my martial arts and am learning advanced katas from a Youtube sensei and books.
I have to consider myself lucky in the circumstances.
pwhole
Well-known member
I'm also pretty happy in my own company, and I've repurposed my spare time into cataloguing a bunch of industrial archeology sites in the local woods near me - Q-pits for whitecoal, working areas and other less obvious, but clearly man-made features, but with no clear use at present. I suspect ancient coal mining, but I'm facing scepticism, given where it is. I'm learning to use QGIS so I can make my own custom maps using LIDAR and bedrock geology, and bought a GPS unit, partly to accurately record them but partly also to improve my work options. It's fascinating stuff, and I'm finding out all sorts of things through other expert people that are keeping it interesting - like extremely high lead levels in one small area, suggesting at least one of these sites was for smelting, and possibly very old indeed. There's plenty of exercise involved too.
Apart from the (I hope temporary) collapse of my social life, and very little work, I'm having quite a good time, but then my lifestyle's set up like this anyway - everything's research of some sort, and it's all connected together as much as possible, so that it rarely gets properly dull. Most of my non-caving friends all seem fine too, if bored. My main frustrations are not being able to see some of the people I really care about, and not being able to get underground to carry on my many projects. But apart from one slightly riskier site, they'll all be exactly the same when I do go back, so it's not the end of the world. To coin a phrase
Apart from the (I hope temporary) collapse of my social life, and very little work, I'm having quite a good time, but then my lifestyle's set up like this anyway - everything's research of some sort, and it's all connected together as much as possible, so that it rarely gets properly dull. Most of my non-caving friends all seem fine too, if bored. My main frustrations are not being able to see some of the people I really care about, and not being able to get underground to carry on my many projects. But apart from one slightly riskier site, they'll all be exactly the same when I do go back, so it's not the end of the world. To coin a phrase
