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"The Economic Miracle of China" Is the pollution worth it?

Charlie

New member
whitelackington said:
Elaine said:
I am very pleased to see you standing up for yourself whitelackington. It would be nice to see more of it.

The point that someone was trying to make was that we in the Western world did exactly the same as the Chinese are doing now once. And how can we sit on our morally high horses telling them they shouldn't? I can see what you are trying to say. I just cannot see how it can be changed.

They are being hit by the potential world recession as the rest of us though, so their industrial output is going to decline. therefore they will burn less coal and pollute less.
I don't believe we fed melamine to animals,
thus contaminating our food chain

Victorian england did however see plenty of foods being contaminated;

facts from a quick google

During the 19th century, much of the food consumed by the working classes is adulterated by foreign substances, contaminated by chemicals or fouled by animal and human excrement. By the 1840s, the practice of home-baking bread has died out among the rural poor; in the small tenements of the urban masses, which have no ovens, it has never existed. In 1872, Dr Arthur Hill Hassall (1817-94), the pioneer investigator into food adulteration, demonstrates that half of the commercially made bread he examines is full of alum, which inhibits digestion.

The list of poisonous additives includes:

? strychnine in rum and beer

? sulphate of copper in pickles, bottled fruit, wine and preserves

? lead chromate in mustard and snuff

? sulphate of iron in tea and beer

? ferric ferrocyanide and lime sulphate in Chinese tea

? copper carbonate, lead sulphate, bisulphate of mercury and Venetian lead in sugar confectionery and chocolate

? lead in wine and cider.

The Privy Council estimates in 1862 that one-fifth of butcher's meat in Britain comes from animals that are 'considerably diseased' or have died of pleuro-pneumonia or other diseases.

As late as 1877, the Local Government Board finds that about a quarter of the milk it examines contains excessive water, or chalk, and 10% of butter, 8% of bread and 50% of gin contains copper to heighten the colour. Red lead gives Gloucester cheese its 'healthy' red hue. In the long run, these additives result in chronic gastritis and, often, fatal food poisoning.

Even the rich are not safe. For example, the London county medical officer discovers the following in ice cream: cotton fibre, lice, bed bugs, bug's legs, fleas, straw, human hairs and cat and dog hairs. Such contamination can (and does) cause diphtheria, scarlet fever, diarrhoea and enteric fever.

http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/guide19/part06.html

the difference is that now it is being widely reported.

PS; dont forget BSE.
 

Charlie

New member
graham said:
Charlie said:
PS; dont forget BSE.

Did they have BSE in China?  :-\

Not that I am aware of. But we did have BSE here, caused by the industrial farming practice of feeding cows on ground up bits of sheep to increase productivity. Hence my comment about contaminating the food chain here...
 

graham

New member
Oh, aye, agree with you completely.

Perhaps, in order to satisfy W/L's own particular brand of aggressive Little Englanderism we ought to start a thread entitled:

"The Economic Miracle of Britain was the pollution worth it?"
 

whitelackington

New member
graham said:
Oh, aye, agree with you completely.

Perhaps, in order to satisfy W/L's own particular brand of aggressive Little Englanderism we ought to start a thread entitled:

"The Economic Miracle of Britain was the pollution worth it?"

Actually that's a good idea, we could all learn a lot, I like it, well suggested Graham, perhaps you can get the ball rolling.
Why Has this page got chinese women advertising SEX?
 

Hughie

Active member
Charlie said:
graham said:
Charlie said:
PS; dont forget BSE.

Did they have BSE in China?  :-\

Not that I am aware of. But we did have BSE here, caused by the industrial farming practice of feeding cows on ground up bits of sheep to increase productivity. Hence my comment about contaminating the food chain here...

There was also a fairly regionalised case of lead contaminated feed being used in animal feed stuff - although this was picked up and acted on fairly promptly (as I recall).

Thank goodness standards and operating practises have been significantly improved and regulated.
 

graham

New member
Hughie said:
Thank goodness standards and operating practises have been significantly improved and regulated.

Don't you mean:

Yet another example of the Brussels inspired red-tape and bureaucracy that prevents our boys competing with the foreign hordes!  ;)
 

Charlie

New member
Hughie said:
Charlie said:
graham said:
Charlie said:
PS; dont forget BSE.

Did they have BSE in China?  :-\

Not that I am aware of. But we did have BSE here, caused by the industrial farming practice of feeding cows on ground up bits of sheep to increase productivity. Hence my comment about contaminating the food chain here...
There was also a fairly regionalised case of lead contaminated feed being used in animal feed stuff - although this was picked up and acted on fairly promptly (as I recall).

There was also the case in Iowa where cattle were accidentally fed brominated flame retardant...
 

Hughie

Active member
graham said:
Hughie said:
Thank goodness standards and operating practises have been significantly improved and regulated.

Don't you mean:

Yet another example of the Brussels inspired red-tape and bureaucracy that prevents our boys competing with the foreign hordes!   ;)

Brussels inspired or not, as a supplier of premium liquid milk, to a domestic market, quality and provenance of inputs is very important.

Charlie said:
There was also the case in Iowa where cattle were accidentally fed brominated flame retardant...

Flame grilled beef????        Not.



 

mak

Member
Charlie said:
...
There was also the case in Iowa where cattle were accidentally fed brominated flame retardant...
I 'spect that ain't so bad as long as you don't mind your steaks a little pink
 

whitelackington

New member
"The Economic Miracle of China" Is the pollution worth it?
Apparently not.

this quote is opinion
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article6652656.ece

"It is Chinese craving for oil and coal that drives global energy markets. The People's Republic was last year the biggest emitter of carbon, leapfrogging America, and it will carry on growing. According to the International Energy Agency, 97 per cent of the projected increase in CO2 emissions between now and 2030 will come from the developing world and three quarters from China and India alone. For every extra dollar of GDP, China emits six times as much carbon as OECD countries.

If carbon is a problem, the solution has to be in Asia. Without a commitment from those countries to curb emissions, Copenhagen is a futile gesture. No surprise, however, to learn that in Beijing and Delhi, the message is loud, clear and rising in irritation. There will be no curb, says China. The priority is jobs and wealth creation. Chinese emissions will increase with no date at which growth in carbon output will end."
 

whitelackington

New member
China still poisoning children
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8204689.stm
Hundreds of Chinese villagers have broken into a factory that poisoned more than 600 children, reports say.

Villagers tore down fencing and smashed coal trucks at the lead smelting factory in Shaanxi Province.

Local authorities have admitted that the plant is responsible for poisoning the children. More than 150 were in hospital.

Air, soil and water pollution is common in China, which has seen rapid economic growth over the past few decades.
 

AndyF

New member
whitelackington said:
If carbon is a problem, the solution has to be in Asia. Without a commitment from those countries to curb emissions, Copenhagen is a futile gesture. No surprise, however, to learn that in Beijing and Delhi, the message is loud, clear and rising in irritation. There will be no curb, says China. The priority is jobs and wealth creation. Chinese emissions will increase with no date at which growth in carbon output will end."

China is not going to take any notice of the West since we produce 20 tons of CO2 per head when the Chinese produce 5.

China is not going to cut emissions when those doing the asking are singularly failing to do so. They are not going to limit the living standards of their people in the interests of the world, just the same attitude as in the US and Europe. Whn the West rations carbon, limits car engine size, limits air travel etc. then they may have a case to make, but not before.

Fair play.

 

whitelackington

New member
AndyF said:
whitelackington said:
If carbon is a problem, the solution has to be in Asia. Without a commitment from those countries to curb emissions, Copenhagen is a futile gesture. No surprise, however, to learn that in Beijing and Delhi, the message is loud, clear and rising in irritation. There will be no curb, says China. The priority is jobs and wealth creation. Chinese emissions will increase with no date at which growth in carbon output will end."

China is not going to take any notice of the West since we produce 20 tons of CO2 per head when the Chinese produce 5.

China is not going to cut emissions when those doing the asking are singularly failing to do so. They are not going to limit the living standards of their people in the interests of the world, just the same attitude as in the US and Europe. Whn the West rations carbon, limits car engine size, limits air travel etc. then they may have a case to make, but not before.

Fair play.
By then,
it will be too late.
like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
 
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