The hardest cave in the U.K.

[racingsnake]

I have carried a shit load of gear out on my own from the bottom of POT II in france and then walked down the pass morter in a storm and felt great. And on the other hand I  have come out of Giants once when I must have been a little off color and felt like it was the hardest trip of my life.

The one thing I can say Simon is all your trips must extremely hard with that huge chip you carry around on your shoulder WHAT A SHAME !!!!

 

[Simon Beck]

No they're not all extremely hard all the time, but would be consistently if i had the partners, alot of these i've faced alone, but there are some at this present moment i don't want to face alone just yet, lets take langcliffe for instance, if it wasn't for a lack of willing partners i probably would have bottomed that already, i have considered doing it alone but there's no way i'm gonna face the nemesis choke for the first time alone, the second time probably yes.
Don't get me wrong though, i'm not fearless and feel fear like everyone else, i'm just insecure when it comes to fear and do not like to be scared of anything, when i feel fear i face it!, we all have our demons.

 

[Simon Beck]

Would anyone believe me if i said Bubba sent me a cheque every month and employed me to be provocative. joke!

 

[SamT]

 

[Peter Burgess]

Would anyone believe me if i said Bubba sent me a cheque every month and employed me to be provocative.

Gizza Job! I can do that!

 

[Simon Beck]

I always remember back when i lived and worked in Llanberis there was this guy and his mates, i'm not gonna mention is name but he's very famous now. They were hardcore climbers, better than most of us could ever hope to be and they were big headed had the attitude to back the routes they climbed associated themselves very little with what they regarded as mere mortals...etc and alot of folks i knew including myself thought they were big headed pricks, but when i look back now i know that my friends and myself were just jealous because we could never in our wildest dreams attain what that guy especially attained on a regular basis. I respect this guy immensely now and keep track of his exploits on a regular basis.

 

[AndyF]

and you are been pretty presumptuous for thinking i beat my chest over it, i do these trips to prove to myself and to me they're just cave trips no different than any other.

Well much of what you have written is chest beating IMO.

Calling people pussys and critisizing people who simple have different agendas to you is presumptious and it rather arrogant. It seems to imply that nothing other than cathartic self punishment type trips are somehow worthwhile. Thats a sad view as there is so much more to the caving world than that.

People can excel in many branches of caving, it may be surveying, conservation, photography, digging .....anything can be done to a high or low standard and it's not just being "hard" that counts.

Surveying, for example is not "hard" as such, but requires a dedication and mindest that is rarely recognised or acknowledged, yet contributes far more to the sport than two guys doing a one-off hard trip to some far flung corner.

 

[Peter Burgess]

We used to have a member in our club who would only ever do the hard stuff. It had to be vertical, and any messing about in crawls was only worth doing if there was a big pitch the other side. Many members thought he was a big-headed and self-opinionated glory-seeker. But if you showed a genuine interest in learning SRT from him, and were prepared to join him on his trips, then you learned a great deal from him. He came over as what I said, but was a good caver and knew his stuff. It takes all sorts - you might not get on with someone at a social level, but go with them on the same terms as them, and you will gain from the experience.

 

[RM]

Interesting thread.

Simon - one thing I would say is that your unfair making it a old/ young debate. I know some very hard cavers in my Uni club and i think its abit rich to say that all the young ones have got no balls.

I have to say though that a part of me understands where your coming from, and i'm certianly looking to push my limits when I cave.

hardest sport trip i've done would be Noon's Hole to the arch 2 sump, though thats mainly cus i didnt know the way.

Both Langcliffe and Swildons GT are on my list .....

 

[gus horsley]

I'm a clapped-out old get who's never been 'ard 'cos I'm far too puffy for that.  Now I've got a headache - where's me pills?  Ah there they are in me handbag.

 

[Simon Beck]

Great RM, that's good to hear.

There're myths to be made, new precendents to be set and with the right bunch of people i feel this could be possible. I'm a sporting caver but i'm interested in a few digging sites also, not for diggings sake only, the digs appeal to me due to there intimidating position and remoteness and because i feel this area deserves the attention for the rewards could be very great!, it may look like i blow my own trumpet but i can assure you i do it to discover the folk who need to be discovered for only they will truly be affected by what i write, i know i would be if someone sounded like they were blowing off about what they were doing.

 

[cavermark]

Most of the hardest climbers in the world are quiet understated blokes (eg. Dave Birkett- more E9 first ascents on mountain crags than any other climber).
Same goes for cavers I reckon. You won't read about many of the really hard exploits unless someone is trying to prove something (perhaps in the trouser department).

Climbers/mountaineers may be "out there" at times but always have potential for helicopter rescue etc. Therefore most cavers who do longish trips are harder I reckon.

 

[Rob]

I was wandering when RM would join in this discussion. I reckon Simon and RM have quite a lot in common, apart from my level of respect. In no way have I in the last 2 years witnessed RM say that he is a good caver, people just learn that he is. I like caving on difficult trips with lots of different people, but if anyone came up to me and said "i'm harder than you, come prove me wrong" I immedeately wouldn't want to cave with them. Respect is deserved where it's due, but not when told by that person, IMO.

 

[Simon Beck]

Respect's something that's earned, i wouldn't expect any more or less from someone i'd never met or caved with. You have a goddamn given right to judge me by what i write, but your conclusions couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Stupot]

Don't you just love it when a descent thread is started and then it just goes all to shit 

Stu.

 

[Simon Beck]

hilarious!

 

[danthecavingman]

For f**ks sake!

Get over it! Why not cave because it's an enjoyable past time or put your iron man skills towards furthering caving i.e. digging.

One of the hardest cavers I was lucky enough to know (and cave with) was Ben Bentham. The guy went on long, cold, wet, arduous trips in some god foresaken places because he was convinced they were going leads and he wanted to find more. He opened up Lathkill Dale with some spectactular finds (at least on a Derbyshire scale). He never grumbled (much) and didn't seek "respect" or "praise" or anything else. He went digging because the cave was there! If you really want to know what the guy was about, have a trip to the end of Critchlow Cave and go and dig the terminal choke. And if you do it and go back again I won't necessarily respect you but I might think you're barking mad!

Don't be such an arsehole to come on here and start slagging because you think that "most" cavers aren't hard enough because they don't do what you think they should be doing. Do what you want to do, get on with it and shut up.

Up 'til now, I actually thought, "fair play, this guy goes on solo trips to places I wouldn't even consider", now I get the impression that you're some sort of egotistical masochist who has something to prove.

Reply to me with all sorts of shite if you want Simon but give this one up. I'm not going to be upset if you say I'm half the man you are. Neither are most of the people on this board.

Some of the people who post on here are the hardest and finest cavers in the country. They don't blow their own trumpets or criticise those who do less. They are a wealth of experience and encourage rather than slag off people.

God I hate ranting on forums, it's such a waste of my time, I always feel like I've been trolled into joining some stupid flame war.

Enough said.

Goodnight.

Dan.

f***. There you go I swore on the board. Sorry.

 

[zomjon]

A little off topic, or nowt to do with the war of words you've set off Simon, but I wasn't half impressed by the write up of SUSS's 3 deepest caves of Derbyshire. A trip that included Maskill (Twice), the connection to Giants and down to the bottom of the East Canal, Nettle and Titan, all in one day; INCREDIBLE. Maybe that's a trip you could aspire too. I don't know if RM would feel inspired enough to repeat the performance.

 

[JB]

There're myths to be made, new precendents to be set and with the right bunch of people i feel this could be possible.

Simon. You're obviously very passionate about your caving and want to further the sport. Great! But you're not making any friends by denigrating the attitudes of others. Who are your caving role models? Who particularly in caving (or climbing for that matter) has done stuff that you deem worthy of respect? Go on; embarrass them. I'd love to know what sort of thing you would like to achieve in the future. Perhaps you could start a new thread if that's appropriate.

You talk about setting new precedents. Is it possible to really set new precedents by following a guidebook description/others to the end of caves? Surely the outcome is fairly certain unless you're going to gamble with a flood risk or have a party in a boulder choke (and that's stupid rather than meritorious).

There are some parallels between alpine climbing and caving. Perhaps pushing into new cave is similar to climbing a new alpine route. You just don't know what you're going to face and you need to use lots of complex skills to keep yourself safe and do what you set out to do. Some of it is physical, some mental and some technical and associated with your equipment. As a climber you're probably familiar with people like Lafaille, Parkin and Twight, awesome alpinists who had all those skills and applied them when the outcome was really uncertain time and time again. If you've not read it I'd recommend Mark Twight's book - 'Extreme Alpinism'. Who did the second ascent of Beyond Good and Evil (Lafaille's route on the Pelerins) or There Goes the Neighbourhood (Twight on the Aiguille Sans Nom)? No idea! Nobody remembers the person who does the second ascent of anything. I'm genuinely interested to know what you aspire to do? You sound like a raving nutter on here. Assuming that you're not like that in real life people might even want to join you.

 

[Stupot]

I think I'd go for Langcliffe.  The crawl feels interminable on the way out and the entrance pitch just about finished me off.  Then there's the bloody long hike after...

I'd vote Mossdale as the most intimidating.  And boring....

You think your hard, you think you know a hard extreme trip then come to yorkshire this winter and we'll go seek one out together.

You could be made to look extremely stupid If someone were to take you up on this.........

Stu.