This Acetylene Generator

[Custards]

I recently acquired this acetylene generator and I am now trying to figure out it's operation. Would anyone be able to give me some pointers? From a layman's perspective it looks very similar to the Stella generator pictured in Alpine Caving Techniques.

I've figured out the red one likely controls drip rate, however the brass ring component underneath it also can be unscrewed and I am none the wiser to it's function (unless as a mear sealing unit).

I have also managed to remove the small Allen bolt on the blue piece (as pictured), however that blue piece itself doesn't seem to budge. I could guess this is where the water should be added, however knowing that the Stella generator could run on open and closed circuit I wonder if the Allen bolt is part of that conversation, rather than being the place to add water directly.

Thanks,
Isaac

 

[Custards]

Quick update, I got a better grip on the blue component with the mole grips and It has now unscrewed, opening what seems to be a far more suitable aperture for adding water.

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Presumably the thing opens up to put lumps of carbide in or clean out any scunge. Have you been able to gently tease it with a big hammer and open up the bottom chamber? Photos please...

 

[paul]

British cavers mostly use Fisma, Petzl Ariane or Premier (Caving Supplies) carbide generators. These only had the equivalent of the red water control tap and a water filling hole as with yours, but no extra control under the water control tap. I think yours is an "Inox" generator from Russia, but I'm not sure, if that helps.

 

[Badlad]

The water filler cap requires a hole otherwise the water doesn't drip into the carbide chamber at the bottom. It looks to me like the hole has been enlarged to take a small diameter pipe. The pipe is run up the side of the gas pipe and tucked into something on the helmet. It is used to blow into, by mouth, to increase water - gas - flame. I never bothered with this conversion myself but a friend swore by it.

Check the seal between the two chambers as they were prone to corrosion. Also the thread on the base, carbide holder, was prone to splitting and then leaking gas.

Let me know what else you need to know. I the 80s and 90s we all used carbide a lot.

 

[shotlighter]

British cavers mostly use Fisma, Petzl Ariane or Premier (Caving Supplies) carbide generators. These only had the equivalent of the red water control tap and a water filling hole as with yours, but no extra control under the water control tap. I think yours is an "Inox" generator from Russia, but I'm not sure, if that helps.

I thought Russian one too. IIRC it had the ability to run pressurised! That could account for the extra holes/knob etc.

 

[Brains]

Looks like one of the Russian titanium ones...
Bottom half should unscrew and should have an "O" ring seal.
Only fill bottom half to no more than 50-60% capacity with carbide. A piece of green scourer on top will help keep debris out of the gas pipe. Putting the carbide in a loose bag of stocking or tight material makes cleaning and changing a fill easier.
The water drip feed will adjust flame size and fill duration. The water filler or the tank will need a vent to prevent a vacuum as the water drains.
A forced pressure system can give a burst of illumination.
The size you have will give a run time of 4-12 hours.
If you cave with LED equipped cavers you will notice how poor the amount of light is, and you are in a small bubble or glow of warm light!
The generator will get lovely and warm, ideal to pop in your oversuit on cold trips.

Rumour has it the titanium metal was liberated from the soviet nuclear industry, and may be "hot"

 

[Custards]

Thanks for all the responses! I got it running earlier and noticed gas coming out of the water cap if left undone, I'd assume this is acetylene entering the water compartment to create the pressurised system. Indeed I got far better flame size with the allen bolt in and the cap fastened down, so a tick in that box. (all this description writing is making me think I might be better served making a video documenting this).

Based off Brains' comment about a vacuum building up as the water drained, could this also explain the Allen bolts use - using the tool to break the seal? (similar to those covers put on diving cylinders when not in use)

It did certainly warm up as well (why couldn't I have had this pre Austria this summer hahaha). Here are a couple more pictures showing the inside, and a second angle on the top controls.

 

[paul]

On "normal" carbide acetylene generators (even the "stinky" caplamps and similar) there is a vent, usually in the filler plug, to allow air to enter as the water level drops. As a side effect, this also allows more water to enter when the generator is submerged and with the increase in pressure, you would get a larger flame for a while.
I believe the Russians introduced a way of blocking this vent to allow the increase in pressure to come from a build up of acetylene and have the same effect of an increased flame.
The problem is that acetylene is explosive above a relatively low pressure! I wouldn't block the vent (also bearing in mind the relative old age of this generator) and just use the generator in the same way as others, and just allow air in to replace the water as the level drops.

 

[asheshouse]

I caved for a while with a French group. One of them had a Primus style pressure pump fitted on his generator which he would use to maintain a good flame as the carbide was expended. I recall that it was very effective and that he was able to greatly extend the burn time and reduce the rate of water use. This was back in the 70’s.

 

[Pitlamp]

Badlad mentioned: "The pipe is run up the side of the gas pipe and tucked into something on the helmet. It is used to blow into, by mouth, to increase water - gas - flame. I never bothered with this conversion myself but a friend swore by it.".

I thought that wasn't especially for oral turbo charging; wasn't it more to stop the acetylene lamp's version of "thermal runaway" if you were doing a lot of deep water stuff?

But I'm not very experienced with those lamps; I can drive a Premier stinky as good as anyone but never got on with the waist slung ones for Dales caving. Found them too numb for awkward sections of passage. (Did use them abroad though on a couple of trips and they were great for illuminating big passages.)

The last time I used a Premier stinky was for reasons of nostalgia at GG; even that was quite some time ago.
LED lamps and modern batteries are just so much better.

 

[Mark Wright]

Badlad mentioned: "The pipe is run up the side of the gas pipe and tucked into something on the helmet. It is used to blow into, by mouth, to increase water - gas - flame. I never bothered with this conversion myself but a friend swore by it.".

I thought that wasn't especially for oral turbo charging; wasn't it more to stop the acetylene lamp's version of "thermal runaway" if you were doing a lot of deep water stuff?

The primary reason for the extra pipe was so it didn't pressurise too much when swimming, but it was brilliant for blowing down and getting a much bigger flame when needed. The newer Petzl generators had an extra breathing pipe that only came up to about shoulder height.

We had an interesting experience with a breather pipe in the DED Gallery in the Berger in 1992. While I was climbing up into some new passage near the end, Steve (Tupper) Thomas was sat on a boulder at the bottom of the climb, looking up. His additional breather pipe was held in place near the front of his helmet and was just long enough to blow down. When not being used it just tucked under his very old style Petzl helmet, which had no vents.

Unfortunately, as it often did, acetylene started to come up Tupper's breather pipe and fed into the inside of his helmet. When the inside of his helmet was full of acetylene it overflowed and set alight, quite dramatically, from his burning lamp.

Luckily for Tupper he had undone his chinstrap so his helmet ended up being about 0.5m above his head with a big ball of flames around his head. It was the most comical thing Badlad, Alan Box and me had ever seen. I dread to think what would have happened if Tupper's chin strap had been fastened!

I always used to wear my generator on a bandolier and it never got in the way, and was really easy to pop into your oversuit when it got a bit chilly.

 

[Wolfo]

A little carbide lamp fanatic here.

Actually your lamp is actually an italian made Stella, stainless 1.4301 housing, the control screws with anodized aluminium caps made it easy to identify. I have also a sample, if you need any pictures for reference, as I guess all questions regarding operation are now solved.

If there is any interest, I could also show some of the russian and czech lamps, with the direct injection type Meander Alustar maybe the most refined one...

 

[Ian Ball]

I would be interested for sure, but just to say, when I started caving the carbide lamp was king, but they are really bad for caves when used irresponsibly and not great when they are. I did have an Ariane generator for a while which I think I used about three times and the faff compared to an electric lamp saw it binned until a kind Italian bought it off me for lots of money.