To tape or not to tape, that is the question?

[Alex]

(Again I must stress I am not against using tape, just the need for such quantities of it, which makes me feel like the above when I was down in Wales). I know it's there to protect the cave and it's not there as people get some perverse pleasure from controlling me, it's just how it feels.

I feel a review should be made after the initial exploration. Do we really need to tape X or Y or Z?. Does the tape make the cave look worse than if it was not there in the first place? Is not having polished rocks worth it for the cave looking like a building site? If no review is made then the tape itself should be classed as permanment damage and should be considered as such when placed and weighted up accordingly.

P.s. it looks like the tape should be there in the photo at the top.

 

[Ian Adams]

What's wrong with removing the tape for the purposes of taking the photograph and then replacing it?



Ian

 

[mrodoc]

I get irritated by the 'it won't work here' brigade regarding anything (they are usually wrong). The system of unobtrusive trail marking using coloured reflectors works well in Australia and the New World and is often combined with use of clear fishing line on risers in certainly positions.  I brought home some sample trail markers but can i get anybody to trial it in any cave - no.  Trialling systems would give us an idea of which works best and I do find yards of tape (police, warning, orange, white paddock) completely destroys the aesthetic of the cave.  Perhaps somebody will be brave enough to eschew tape and go for the continental system - not holding my breath tho'.

 

[Alex]

I agree mrodoc and if I find a cave with big huge passage like that, that is how I will mark it (If only I was so lucky!). I am trying to remember how it worked in the Berger, I certainly don't recall miles and miles of tape.

 

[mikem]

The time machine has reflectors laid through it to guide people.

Mike

 

[PeteHall]

High Time in Charterhouse has reflective markers to guide the route, with a few bits of tape marking specific features.

(It is also in Charterhouse where I have seen dive line used instead of tape)

 

[droid]

Which is a sensible compromise.

A 'c' word that seems rather rare in (internet) caving..... :

 

[andrewmcleod]

But, I would rather see polished rocks then loads of red and white tape protecting said rocks. Delicate mud and calcite formations I understand, but rocks, you really tape off rocks? All you do in this situation is increase the wear on one point and make it even more slippery and muddied and horrible on the route that everyone uses, focusing the destruction to one point, where as it would have been if it was spread out a bit and not be any where near as visible as the whole passage look similar. What you do end up with is basically one long show cave when you tape everything and a complete lack of sense of you being in a wild cave (or a building site, which is another image that comes to mind).

We obviously look at the entrance of OFD2 in different ways - to me it's a horrible polished mess that's far less wild than the moor outside and it can't possibly get any more polished... I'm sure there are wild parts of OFD but I'm not sure I've travelled in any yet. I've seen them - above me, below me, or through tiny spaces.

The reflectors in the Time Machine don't stop you going all over the passage, and Charterhouse is leader led?

 

[JohnMCooper]

and Charterhouse is leader led?

Yes it is.

 

[PeteHall]

The reflectors in the Time Machine don't stop you going all over the passage

No they don't, but neither does tape which still relies on the caver acting responsibly and not crossing it. The purpose of marking routes, by whatever means, is to guide cavers through the path of least destruction, rather than to act as a barrier. Some methods are more obvious and may be better suited to easily accessible areas, visited by many inexperienced cavers. Other methods are more sympathetic to the natural environment, but require more care from passing cavers and are perhaps better suited to more remote areas where traffic will be less frequent and more experienced.

and Charterhouse is leader led?

Yes (as John has confirmed). I guess that as above, you would expect a higher level of awareness and care as a result of the leader, hence a less intrusive marking system is appropriate.

 

[Leclused]

One of the better discussion from a few years ago, take your time to read it

https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=16892.0

Dagobert