Unbelievable vandalism in Notts II

[Cave Mapper]

I wish I had a photo to illustrate this, but I don't, so you'll have to trust my description.

Half way along the the Flood Bypass crawl in Nott's II, which for the most part is hard going and uninteresting, is a chamber with some beautiful stal. There's a big white stalagmite in the centre of the passage, which you can pass without touching if you are careful. Sadly it is already rather mud splattered, due to cavers' carelessness.

I'm just contemplating how we should take more care of these treasures, when I look back at the ceiling formations. There are gorgeous, pure white, sparkling stalactites and curtains, and on the best and largest curtain, someone has daubed their initials with a muddy finger:

'BA'  Bad Ass?

 

[Amy]

I'm so sorry to hear you are dealing with vandels over there now too. I hope the mud can be carefully cleaned off and the bastard caught.

 

[dunc]

Water would need dragging from the main stream to clean it (or bringing in), not ideal but got to be worth a try, the sooner the better too. One wonders what kind of intelligence (if any at all) these people have and what goes through their minds when doing it. Perhaps the sad little individual is at home 'getting off' on their fame of being mentioned on a caving forum?

With such easy access to this location and other decorated bits it really was only a matter of time before this cave suffered. The stal mentioned above was starting to see signs of passage a fair few years back.

 

[Leclused]

cleaning can be easily done with a small spray-can and a brush.

I would also suggest to bring clean water from outside the cave otherwise the nozzle can be become clogged up.

see on page 7 of the following document  for an example

http://www.scavalon.be/downloads/afbakening_in_grotten.pdf

Dagobert

 

[graham]

cleaning can be easily done with a small spray-can and a brush.

True, but in most cases spraying should be adequate without the need to touch the stal with a potentially abrasive brush.

I would also suggest to bring clean water from outside the cave otherwise the nozzle can be become clogged up.

Whereas cave water should match more closely the chemical characteristics of the immediate environment. Possibly not important in this case.

 

[Leclused]

cleaning can be easily done with a small spray-can and a brush.

True, but in most cases spraying should be adequate without the need to touch the stal with a potentially abrasive brush.

I would also suggest to bring clean water from outside the cave otherwise the nozzle can be become clogged up.

Whereas cave water should match more closely the chemical characteristics of the immediate environment. Possibly not important in this case.

True for the brush, if spraying is enough don't use the brush. But I thought that was obvious.
About the water, you can always use sterilised (correct term?) water.

 

[Fulk]

About the water, you can always use sterilised (correct term?) water.

I'd have thought that was a bit over the top; maybe you're thinking of de-ionized water?

 

[Speleotron]

De-ionised water would dissolve the stal a bit cos of the osmotic gradient.

 

[Leclused]

De-ionised water would dissolve the stal a bit cos of the osmotic gradient.

Let us use clean water from the cave or from home ;-)  The final result will be a clean stal no matter which kind of water you use.

 

[Fulk]

De-ionised water would dissolve the stal a bit cos of the osmotic gradient.

In theory, de-ionized water would dissolve a bit of calcite; in practice the solubility of calcium carbonate in pure water is so low that for all practical purposes  it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.

So ? use clean water from the tap, from the underground stream, wherever ? it's got to be better than muddy stal.!

 

[Pitlamp]

De-ionised water would dissolve the stal a bit cos of the osmotic gradient.

That comment slightly surprised me speleotron - how does osmosis influence this situation?

 

[langcliffe]

De-ionised water would dissolve the stal a bit cos of the osmotic gradient.

That comment slightly surprised me speleotron - how does osmosis influence this situation?

I was left confused as well. Where is the semi-permeable membrane?

 

[Speleotron]

Well the de-ionised water has nothing disolved in it so would pul ions out of the calcite more readily than tap water or cave water, but that's not really the point I suppose the main thing is acidity, anyway I was just trying to be clever out of boredom.

 

[Speleotron]

Osmotic gradient was maybe the wrong term, what I meant was that de ionied water with no ionic strength would more readily solvate the ions from the calcite than tap water, the osmotic gradient being that between the pure water and the calcite but yeah acidity would be the main thing.

 

[Pitlamp]

Thanks Speleotron - would "diffusion gradient" be a better term?

 

[Speleotron]

Yes I suppose so. Dont they clean the colonades with water thats dripped from the ceilling of the chamber or something?

 

[Pitlamp]

Yes, I think you're right. The Bradford also did something along these lines in GG's East Passage a few years ago - a really good effort in fact.

 

[Pitlamp]

Just musing on this thread - I think we should keep things in perspective here. A small muddy inscription, which is non permanent, which is rightly frowned on by the vast majority of cavers - and which volunteers are obviously determined to rectify at the first opportunity - isn't the end of the world.

Believe me I'm not condoning it but if the perpetrator is reading this forum perhaps they're already regretting what they did. And in a sense it's maybe partly the fault of their more experienced colleagues who perhaps didn't educate them adequately? It's obvious that the great weight of speleological opinion is firmly against such vandalism. I only mention this because I'm led to believe that there are certain factions who would have us banned altogether from cave SSSI's. Let's not fan the flames too much in that department or we might all suffer (unnecessarily).

Wouldn't it be great if "BA" turned up and offered to sort out this problem directly? (Perhaps with a little help and supervision if (s)he's not very experienced?)

Perhaps I'd better put the above remarks in context by disclosing that I was very much involved in the original exploration of Notts 2 - and the subsequent search for an easier dry route in. So in one way I guess I'm not completely blameless either.

 

[Amy]

Adding to Pitlamp...it is nothing like what we see in the US. Here it would have been spraypainted beyond an inch of it's life...and that stuff is impossible to get off. If walls aremuddy the mud can be scrapped, if the rock itself we can sandblast it and then sweep up the sand...can carefully scrub around formations but it wont come off...you can read about some of the current major vandelizm we are facing here especially with the stupid gov't blanket cave closures (because cavers aren't around to care for and push out the hooligans who dont' give a shit about the law, or dont know about it) starting ont he first page here...http://www.caves.org/grotto/huntsville/newsltr/hgn_feb_12.pdf

 

[mrodoc]

As far as I can tell there is ignorance and vandalism. When I started caving 47 years ago I can remember writing my name on cave walls with a carbide lamp and on one occasion testing out the texture of moonmilk by running my fingers down the wall (I think I can still see those marks).  I soon learned to respect the environment. However never in my wildest dreams would I have thought of writing my name on a surface of pristine stal. This is pure vandalism and I find it appalling that somebody should have the skill to visit Notts II and then behave in this way. Beggars belief