unicycling in caves

[cap n chris]

You'd give yourself a hernia. Probably safer to do Egg-and-Spoon caving - I'd watch it if you put it on YouTube, Pete.

 

[graham]

It reminds me of the Extreme Ironing days of yore, except that this newer example actually requires the participants to have acquired a skill and FAR greater level of personal fitness; which in this day and age is commendable to the max.

Did anyone complain about anyone taking an ironing board underground? If so, I don't recall it.

Speaking personally, I'd rather that people didn't do such things in UK caves*, but I suspect that this particular foray actually had no more of an impact than any number of other trips underground. Caves are, in general, low energy environments & so it is quite easy to have a noticeable impact on them, but one has to have balance when considering conservation issues, as a truly minimal impact would cut out most caving trips completely. Except that the OFD streamway could take as many novice trips as you like - providing they stay out of the rest of the cave.

One impact of this trip is that NigR seems to have vanished overnight.


*fortunately, I don't think Mendip caves are fitted to this particular activity.

 

[NigR]

One impact of this trip is that NigR seems to have vanished overnight.

No, sorry to disappoint you but I am still here!

Weather has been too good to waste and I need time to look into the background of this a little more before posting again.

*fortunately, I don't think Mendip caves are fitted to this particular activity.

Thought you might say something like that!

It is interesting to note that the only people who are appalled by this (Liz, PT and myself) are all resident in South Wales, whilst those who think it is OK (or not too bad or whatever) all live elsewhere.

 

[graham]

... I need time to look into the background of this a little more before posting again.

You wanted to know who these people are. Now you you know. I asked what you wanted to do with this information. You still don't know, do you.

Spluttering outrage is not a practical method of cave conservation, is it.

 

[LizW1985]

Maybe what nigr intends to do with the info is private.  Hopefully the cave management committee will take further steps to try and prevent it happening again. 

 

[graham]

Maybe what nigr intends to do with the info is private.

He was asking for it on a public forum. Why should anybody have handed him information publicly if they don't know what he is going to do with it?

Hopefully the cave management committee will take further steps to try and prevent it happening again.

Out of interest, is he on that committee? If not, why didn't he just ask for the information to be sent directly to them?

Bearing in mind that NigR does not approve of people being banned from caves, bearing in mind that he seems to have some issues with caves being gated & locked, I'm just interested in quite how he thinks this matter should be taken forward.

 

[LizW1985]

Yes but its usually when things like this happen cave access becomes tighter which can spoil it for others. To be honest im not sure whos on the committee. 

 

[JonP]

awesome video!!

its just obviously quicker way of getting places underground.

 

[gavinnewman]

I dont think the issue here is about cycling or unicycling in caves...  my biggest concern about this film  ( very nicely shot by the way ) is that they filmed themselves disturbing a bat , presumably in Aggy.  To film or photograph a bat in the UK you need a license and disturbing them knowingly is an offence.  Now whilst I'm a big fan of bats I'm no fan of over zealous bat protection. I know we can all share the caves quite amicably, however others would disagree and the law is on their side, so lets not give them any more ammunition by including bats in a film like this. I'm sure that those making this film are unaware of the law and meant no harm but its something like this that could get caves like Aggy closed. In this case I would suggest removing the current edit from wherever its posted and a simple re edit before someone gets upset and the makers get in trouble. 
Apart from the bat issue I thought it was a fun film, well made.
Gavin.

 

[NigR]

You wanted to know who these people are. Now you you know. I asked what you wanted to do with this information. You still don't know, do you.

Oh, yes I do.

Maybe what nigr intends to do with the info is private.  Hopefully the cave management committee will take further steps to try and prevent it happening again. 

Liz, rest assured that I will be doing absolutely everything I can, by whatever means I deem necessary, to ensure that this will not be happening again.

Hopefully, the cave management committee will be doing so as well.

Out of interest, is he on that committee?

No, I am not.

 

[graham]

So what are you going to do, Nig.

And more to the point, by what authority are you going to do it?

 

[NigR]

So what are you going to do, Nig.

Wait and see.

 

[graham]

:

 

[NigR]

First of all it seems wise to establish my caving credentials, I have been leading trips into the three caves included in the video for the last 6 years. Thomas and Mike are not leaders but have plenty of underground experience and for Katie it was her first time underground. I consider myself a competent cave leader with a good understanding of these caves and a healthy respect for good caving practice, which, as with every caving trip, was communicated to the rest of the group.

......my biggest concern about this film.....is that they filmed themselves disturbing a bat , presumably in Aggy. To film or photograph a bat in the UK you need a license and disturbing them knowingly is an offence.  Now whilst I'm a big fan of bats I'm no fan of over zealous bat protection. I know we can all share the caves quite amicably, however others would disagree and the law is on their side, so lets not give them any more ammunition by including bats in a film like this. I'm sure that those making this film are unaware of the law and meant no harm.....

As a responsible, experienced cave leader I am sure Steffan will have read and be familiar with the Agen Allwedd access regulations, particularly the section relating to the possible disturbance of bats.

 

[crickleymal]

I don't see what the problem is myself. It can't be any worse than carrying other stuff through caves as others have said. God forbid people should enjoy themselves.

I too would like to know what NigR is going to do with the info he says he has.

 

[Andrew W]

I'm assuming he wants to preempt the inevitable follow up - 10 people in a clown car visit Agen Allwedd.

 

[NigR]

I too would like to know what NigR is going to do with the info he says he has.

The only info I have is that which is readily available to anyone who is prepared to look for it i.e. the identities of those involved, the name of the caving club to which one of them belongs, the caves they visited and the date they did so.

And, of course, the video itself.

I have already stated what I intend to do with this information i.e. use it as best I can to prevent this from happening again in the future, especially in South Wales.

I'm assuming he wants to preempt the inevitable follow up - 10 people in a clown car visit Agen Allwedd.

So yes, Andrew, that could be another way of looking at it!

 

[graham]

I have already stated what I intend to do with this information i.e. use it as best I can to prevent this from happening again in the future, especially in South Wales.

How? And on what authority?

 

[NigR]

I have already stated what I intend to do with this information i.e. use it as best I can to prevent this from happening again in the future, especially in South Wales.

How?

Wait and see.

And on what authority?

No authority whatsoever, purely my own initiative as a caver who is concerned about the welfare of the caves (and their inhabitants) in the country where I have chosen to live.

 

[graham]

I have already stated what I intend to do with this information i.e. use it as best I can to prevent this from happening again in the future, especially in South Wales.

How?

Wait and see.

With rapt fascination.

And on what authority?

No authority whatsoever, purely my own initiative as a caver who is concerned about the welfare of the caves (and their inhabitants) in the country where I have chosen to live.

OK, so there's nothing you can actually do as you have no authority to act in this matter whatsoever, as I suspected. The only action that you can take that might have any effect whatsoever would be to pass on any information that you might have to a person or body who actually does have some authority. As you are not keen on cavers being banned from caves - or so you keep telling me - I fail to see how passing on any information to the management committee will make any other difference to the situation. Perhaps you are going to build an automatic trap that catches unicycles for them. I wonder how they might be distinguished from diving gear by the necessary detectors.

Alternatively, you are going to pass on the details of these people to those who have responsibility for the cave's ...ahem ... inhabitants and risk the consequence iterated by Gavin a few posts above. I can see that making you very popular in south Wales with your fellow cavers.