Vote Rostam!!!

[droid]

It's micromanagement. e less faff just to change the name.

 

[Pitlamp]

NewStuff makes a good point, in his / her (?) own inimitable fashion.

Let's just sort this and have done with it. I can't think of any reasonable argument against it.

But . . . . what has all this got to do with the original post? Surely much of what's in this topic is overdue for a split or two?  Mods? 

 

[Badlad]

[info]Indeed.  I looked at splitting the topic a while back but it had already gone off on several tangents and became difficult to work out where and to what point.  Renaming it 'a rambling pub conversation on cave politics' might have upset someone  [/info]

 

[Badlad]

What is interesting is that this topic has already had nearly 4000 views.  That will be a lot of the same people returning again and again but never the less it's still a lot of interest.  Perhaps cave politics is more popular than many give it credit for  :-\

 

[NewStuff]

Unless people are hell bent on objecting to the change, for unknown reasons, then it's "I propose we change the title of Chairman to Chair". Seconded, put to members, voted online, job done.

It's really is pretty trivial now that you don't have the schlep to an AGM or piss about with paper and post. It doesn't affect me in the slightest, I'm a bloke, but if it removes an issue and gets more people involved, volunteering, furthering underground endeavours, better beer choice after a trip... whatever the contribution is, then it's good. It harms literally no-one. I can't see anything other than upsides, it's an easy win from a PR point of view.

 

[ChrisJC]

I move for the next AGM we remove the word chair, and use the word president instead. Much less controversial.

Chris.

 

[JoshW]

I move for the next AGM we remove the word chair, and use the word president instead. Much less controversial.

Chris.

Feel free to put that proposal in at the next AGM, although until recently (2020 AGM) BCA had a president position (as well as a chairman), so that might add confusion.

 

[Chocolate fireguard]

What is interesting is that this topic has already had nearly 4000 views.  That will be a lot of the same people returning again and again but never the less it's still a lot of interest.  Perhaps cave politics is more popular than many give it credit for  :-\

Loud arguments in the pub, on the street, on the roads will always attract attention, but most people think it unrewarding and undignified to get involved.
Mrs Trellis and tony from suffolk will always get my vote.

 

[droid]

Unless people are hell bent on objecting to the change, for unknown reasons, then it's "I propose we change the title of Chairman to Chair". Seconded, put to members, voted online, job done.

Just change it.

The more you try to accommodate the 'anti' element the more they are emboldened to make more demands. Just grow some.

 

[kay]

So the need for a ballot on a word that's merely a descriptor isn't a faff?

The addition of a question on a ballot that was happening anyway? Doesn?t rate very highly on the faff scale to my mind.

 

[mikem]

Anyway, Newstuff changing the wording of a quote is more of an issue.

 

[NewStuff]

Just change it. The more you try to accommodate the 'anti' element the more they are emboldened to make more demands. Just grow some.

I still maintain they scrap the lot and start over because it's not fit for purpose any more. The fact that these arguments have to be had shows that. I've said this for years. I do not have a testicular shortage, I'l;l happily say this to someone face in a boozer. Anyone that knows me knows I'm just as gobby in real life. I do agree somewhat though, as it's been shown repeatedly, that they cannot be reasoned with. However, if someone is going to play these shenanigans they set up, then this is the way to play it.

Anyway, Newstuff changing the wording of a quote is more of an issue.

So, you're BradW then?

 

[mikem]

No, just thought it ironic that on one thread you say you can't just change a word on the constitution & then do the forum equivalent, by changing Kay's words.

 

[NewStuff]

No, just thought it ironic that on one thread you say you can't just change a word on the constitution & then do the forum equivalent, by changing Kay's words.

Comparing a constitution and a forum post is about as apples to oranges as you get, and you well know it. Stop being asinine.

 

[jh5638]

What's interesting to a peripheral observer like me is how much arguing has gone on over a point that seems very uncontroversial.

If this is a tiny insight into what happens at proper BCA meetings, I can completely see now how a vocal minority can make even a minor change seem like an uphill struggle. No wonder some people say the BCA is resistant to change!

Good luck to all those standing for positions in the BCA, I honestly don't think I could do it.

 

[David Rose]

BCA council meetings are now much shorter and smoother than they used to be. It's one of the few positives of the pandemic: having them on zoom means they tend to be focused, well attended, and productive.

 

[Stuart France]

Actually, Dave, with Chairwoman/Chairwomen/Chairman/Chairmen/Chairperson(s)/Chair(s) topic that this thread has touched upon concerns the recent AGM and not council meetings.  But I agree, Zoom has brought a tremendous improvement to the rate at which business is conducted, both at AGM and council meetings, and on the whole it has promoted constructive personal behaviour.

As I recall, the "chair" discussion, as the fifth of five proposals amending the constitution, came almost an afterthought at the end of quite a productive discussion about more weighty constitutional changes that have been worked on by a specialised group for some time so as to bring BCA more up to date to serve its present and future membership better.

It was obvious pretty quickly that the AGM was not going to let itself be persuaded to indulge in a bun fight on the chair word, so the meeting quickly moved on to the next agenda item which was about fairness, equality and diversity.  So why are people getting so worked up about "chair" here?

AGMs can't amend proposals any more, so Proposal 5 was and is to change Chairman/Chairmen to Chair, and you either take it or leave it.  Simple as that.  It's going to pass, so just get over it.

 

[David Rose]

I totally agree, Stuart.