Warning - major collapse at Odin Mine

AR

Well-known member
I took part in a condition inspection last month and although the collapse that prompted the closure hasn't significantly enlarged, there are signs of a slump close to the entrance which is giving cause for concern and will need monitoring. Another inspection is planned for the summer, which will involve going down to inspect the underside of the collapse. The closure remains in force for the time being, so please could everyone continue to respect the NT's wishes and keep out.
 

Roger W

Well-known member
I was sitting on one of those benches outside the chippy at Castleton the other day, idly munching my fish and chips and quietly watching the world go by, when who should I see coming towards me but my old mate Sid.  His usual vigorous stride seemed strangely hesitant, and his usual spiky reverse Mohican haircut seemed likewise reduced from its usual splendour.

?Have a seat,? I said to him, offering him a chip at the same time.

?Ta, but not just at the moment,? he said as he took the proffered morsel of potato but remained standing, leaning sideways with his shoulder against the wall.

?Hullo,? I said.  ?What have you been up to then??

?Went for a quick poke down Odin, didn?t I?? he said, reaching out for another chip.

?That?s supposed to be out of bounds at the moment, isn?t it?? I asked.

?S?right,? he replied.  ?That?s why I went in ? to have a look round and see what was going on.?

?And what did you see?? I asked.

?Well,? he said, settling himself more comfortably against the wall, ?I went up there at a suitably quiet hour, of course, and had no trouble getting in.  But the place is very unstable, and just as I came to the site of Phil?s ?collapse? the ground started to trickle away under my feet.  The next thing I knew I was sliding down into this chasm, with the ground falling away under me and the crash and roar of falling rocks coming up from down below.

?Fortunately the sides of the old stope weren?t quite vertical, and I found myself sliding down on my backside at a great rate of knots.  Unfortunately, there seemed to be no bottom to the wretched hole and after a bit the seat of my oversuit started to wear through.  Eventually, after what seemed ages, the crazy fall came to an end and I found myself rolling head over heels down a slope of rocks and dirt, with both oversuit and furry worn clean away, together with the outer layer of skin.  What?s that?  Painful?  Aye, you could say so!

But then ? somehow my light was still working ? I found myself standing more or less upright in quite a large chamber that seemed to open out into a huge cavern that was massive beyond belief.  There was something about the look ? and smell ? of the place, though, that made me think ?I?ve been here before...?  And there was something I wasn?t expecting to see ? a great iron gate across the passage, blocking off the way to the cavern beyond.

?Well, I couldn?t think of anything else to do, so I picked up a rock and started hammering on the bars of the gate.  And sure enough, a little purple imp with spiky ears promptly popped up from behind a boulder on the other side.  ?Who are you, and what are you doing here?? he asked.

? ?Who are you, and what?s this effing gate doing here?? I asked in return.

? ?The gate?? he said.  ?We had to put that up to keep you guys out.  Too many of you trying to get in without permits!?  And then he shouted out ?Hey, Boss!  There?s another of ?em here!?

?And then, once again, I heart that awful, dark, gritty voice booming out of the darkness:  ?It?s not that Derbyshire lot again, is it?  We don?t want them down here causing trouble!?  And then ?Oh, no!  Not you again!  Asmodelius!  Get rid of him!?

?And, once again, that huge dark shape rose out from the blue glow of the burning sulphur, swinging the gate open with one hand and cracking a fiery whip with the other.  ?Up you go, lad!? he said, and I found myself running for dear life up this never-ending spiral slope with that red-hot whip flicking across my exposed backside until eventually the hillside gaped open and I found myself in bright moonlight running across that patch of grass just opposite Mam Tor...?

?Tell me, Sid,? I said, ?just how many pints did you have before you set out on this little escapade??

?Never you mind,? said he.  ?But now you know why I don?t want to sit down for the moment!?


OK - I can't believe a word of any of Sid's stories but what is the latest on Odin?  Can anyone bring us up to date?
 

bograt

Active member
All I can say is that there are only two holes in Derbyshire that have caused me pain, Waterfall Hole warned me,  but Odin tried to kill me, I'd like to challenge it further, but I think it would win!
P.S. my first rescue call out was Odin, I Do Not Like That Hole! :mad:
 

droid

Active member
Any mine that goes under a still active rotational landslide is going to have it's issues.

Been down it once, didn't get far, in no real hurry to go back.
 

AR

Well-known member
There was another inspection visit a couple of months back, there's been no further discernable movement on the new collapse. A number of suggestions have been made about future management and access, the matter is now with senior management at the NT so I can't really say any more than that at present.

Droid - the Mam Tor landslip isn't in itself a problem for the mine, which is in the underlying limestone, but the shale has dropped into the vein cavities and degraded to the infamous Odin mud. If sufficiently wetted, it also washes through and if the limestone deads aren't sufficiently wedged in, a collapse follows....
 

droid

Active member
Isn't there a considerable relief in the old limestone surface? Leading to 'losing' the vein at various points?
 

pwhole

Well-known member
Yeah, the shale/limestone interface wanders all over the place at the top levels, which is partly the problem - big troughs of shale form the roof of some sections, whereas with others it's hard limestone, and the miners were trying to drive horizontal levels through that, often with hilarious consequences.

The irony with Odin is that the deeper you go (theoretically at least) the host rock should be more stable and the vein more consistent as you're leaving both the shale and the boulder bed far above. Obviously the tons of deads held up on wooden stemples will mitigate that advantage somewhat, but even so, the highest and earliest levels are probably the dodgiest. Sadly that's where the current entrance also resides...
 

AR

Well-known member
The issue is still with NT senior management AFAIK, but if Paul Mortimer is at the UCF meeting tonight he'll know whether there's been any progress or not.
 

martinm

New member
AR said:
The issue is still with NT senior management AFAIK, but if Paul Mortimer is at the UCF meeting tonight he'll know whether there's been any progress or not.

Erm, the meeting is on the 14th, not tonight!
 

Jenny P

Active member
This is still ongoing and DCA is awaiting information from National Trust, who own the site.  They, in turn, are consulting with various of their experts so all DCA can do is wait. 

It's not been forgotten and we still hope that it will be possible to restore access eventually but it is out of DCA's hands for the moment.  We will keep everyone informed as soon as we have any positive news.

Jenny Potts,
Hon. Sec. DCA
 

Cave_Troll

Active member
I biked past a week or two ago and the whole area (odin cave, the flat area towards the road and the gorge) was fenced off due to "rock fall"
 

pwhole

Well-known member
Apparently it's one of the old fluorite-mining shafts on the top of the gorge (Treak Cliff side) that has started collapsing, and dropped rocks below. Personally I find that difficult to understand, as both the shafts I've seen up there had birdcage covers, had no protruding ginging and were not close enough to the edge to be a hazard below. So it's still a bit of a mystery, and there's been zero progress made in the last few months as far as I can see. I know the head warden at the NT is retiring soon, which may be the reason for the delay.
 

pwhole

Well-known member
Here's the two shafts, photographed in 2010 - if it is one of these that's caused it, there must have been a serious change in the topography. Next time I'm wandering about I'll have a look, but if anyone else gets chance before me, please report back.
 

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TheMercury13

New member
I find this fascinating; I'm not a Caver, too scared of small spaces & risks :eek: but I love caves, so I visit the tourist 1s & vicariously read caving blogs. I was wondering about the Odin mine, why it's not been opened but I hadn't realised the condition it's in! Would a 3-D scanner be useful for mapping it? Guessing it's costly, has it's limits & I've no idea how you'd go about it - maybe NT would be interested to know the lay of their land?
 

pwhole

Well-known member
droid - Yes I did go up, two weeks ago - the collapse was a large chunk of rock from the south side of the gorge - it's the roof of one of the small cave/mine openings about ten metres above the gorge floor (pictured before it collapsed). It was probably a ton of rock that dropped, so it would have been fatal if anyone had been there. I've no idea as yet what the NT are planning regarding repairs or stabilisation, but it wouldn't be safe to allow people in there without some work doing. It doesn't affect the mine itself, but as yet the access agreement for the future hasn't yet been finalised - I hope that we'll learn more at the next UCF meeting in late October if not before.

TheMercury13 - 3D scanners (other than hand-held) would be impossible in Odin due to the filthy and unstable conditions. Our plan way back in 2010 was to attempt to push and survey the parts deemed to be blocked or inaccessible, and re-survey the more interesting sections shown on the 1975 Peter Lord/SUSS survey, but sadly the 'incorrect' reporting of the floor collapse (we used the word 'dangerous' - quite reasonable, we presumed, as it was) was enough to make them close it down to cavers. One day we do hope to get back onto this project, as long as I'm still caving and not in an OAP home.
 

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