What Compact Camera?

[Mr Mike]

It's time to upgrade my compact camera and I'm looking at going for something from the high end market side. It's for use (just in case anyone thinks otherwise) underground, mostly in dirty northern metal mines.

I've looked at the following:

Lumix DMC LX5

Canon S95

Olympus XZ-1

They are all ?250-310 mark.

Has anyone used these underground or above for that matter. I know for that money you can get a bridging camera or even a bit more and DSLR, but it's the size factor for me and ease of getting it out and setup (uh ere misses) for on the trot shots or in dirty / really wet places.

 

[antmcc]

I haven't used any of the cameras you mention, so can't advise there, but think it's worth pointing out that some of the mirrorless cameras that are available such as the Olympus Pen and the Panasonic GF/GH etc give some of the benefits of a SLR,  (better low light performance, range of lenses, more depth of field control, manual control etc) without a vastly increase in size over compacts. Of course they cost a bit more, so that may rule them out. I know the high end Canon compact (the G12 and predecessors) have proved more than suitable for underground photography (I think Rob used to use one of these extenisvely and has produced some great photos from it)

I've only handled mirrorless cameras on the surface, so can't comment on their suitability underground but there may be someone with (real) experience of these type of cameras who may help identify if mirrorless may be a contender for you.

 

[Rob]

Some good cameras in that list. Presumably youve read the review (here: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/OlympusXZ1/) which partially compares those three cameras!

First thing to say is that they all have full manual control, so they will all be fine. They'll all be able to capture 98% of what you see in the national and international magazines. 

I haven't used any of them, so can't nearly say which will be the most pleasurable to use underground. What i can say is that from my experience, if a camera has a lens that physically moves in and out of the camera, it needs proper protection whilst underground. For me this comes in the form of an underwater housing. I got through 3 compact cameras in <2 years, all due to crap in the lens mechanism! I know Canon do cheapish ones (~?100), not sure about the others...

 

[Mr Mike]

Yes, I checked out photography blog on all of them.

My current Canon compact 960 has survived 2 years of underground use with a pop out lens, that's roughly 2-3 days a month.

I really wanted to see if anyone has used the Oly, however I've had an offer I may not be able to refuse.

I'm about to start doing some design work for Olympus in the their high speed camera division (out of interest these things can do up to 40,000fps!) and asked one of the contacts there, anyway he got talking with someone, which I contacted and they have offered me the XZ-1 at staff price + if it does not work well underground or fails due to dirt they will repair or money back, "as they were interested to see how it performs"

I try to avoid waterproof cases, 1 they are expensive, 2 bulk. I like to use a really light tripod, 1010 peli mciro case and LED lights, makes a compact setup when your exploring and carrying loads of kit - plus really quick to get it all out and back in, hence the reluctance to go to anything bigger.

 

[JeremyG]

Another camera to consider is the new Nikon Coolpix P300, see http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/38413/nikon-coolpix-p300-vs-canon-powershot-s95

The only disadvantage I can see with the Nikon is that it doesnt shoot RAW, ok if you are happy with hi-res jpegs.

 

[Rob]

I'm about to start doing some design work for Olympus in the their high speed camera division (out of interest these things can do up to 40,000fps!) and asked one of the contacts there, anyway he got talking with someone, which I contacted and they have offered me the XZ-1 at staff price + if it does not work well underground or fails due to dirt they will repair or money back, "as they were interested to see how it performs"

If that's the case then I'm suprised you even bothered with this topic!

I try to avoid waterproof cases, 1 they are expensive, 2 bulk. I like to use a really light tripod, 1010 peli mciro case and LED lights, makes a compact setup when your exploring and carrying loads of kit - plus really quick to get it all out and back in, hence the reluctance to go to anything bigger.

Understandable, and a good setup.

 

[Amy]

In general, Nikons seem to do well in low-light/weird light/crappy light environments (aka, caves) something that people with random other manufactor cameras don't seem to do as well on (although Olympus seems to be good as well).

I myself am going to be getting a Nikon P60.

I have a dSLR but I?m NOT taking that into a cave. I don?t have the money to replace should it get destroyed. I do keep my eye on Craigslist?sometimes temping D60 w/lens for $350 or so?but still, that?s gonna be bigger and bulkier to carry and I like caving for caves. Really, so long as I can do a manual mode, I should be good enough. Focusing is easy if I light up what I want it to focus on, then I look away or turn down the light or something. The problem with a just p&s though is it sets the f/stop and shutter speed when I do that, so then pulling light away after giving it light to focus doesn?t work if I want to lightpaint.

?Tis why I was going to go with the p60 (you can find them on ebay for like $50-$60)?
- Reviews say it does well in low light conditions across the board
- 5x optical is what my current p&s has, before that the one I destroyed was only 3x so I think it?s good enough, still a decent range it?s 36-180mm equiv, my fav overall lens for my dSLR is 18-200
- Manual focus mode
- Manual exposure mode as well as a programmed auto you can set
- Uses 2xAA batteries, so you don?t have to worry about running out of battery on a long trip
- ISO seems to do well as far as not being grainy up to around 600/800
- It is small ( 2.5 x 3.8 x 1.5 inches)
- I like that it has the eye viewfinder

The pitfalls being:
- Doesn?t shoot in RAW (but very few p&s do, have to get up to the high end almost-slr ones to get that)
- No A/S/P modes (ditto)
- No accessory shoe (ditto)

And that size will fit into Otterbox 8000 case that inside dimensions are 2.8 x 5.1 x 1.9 so it?s an extra bit of hight but could shove in some foam or something for padding, or throw extra batteries or another SD card or something in it. But the fit is pretty good and then you?re not carrying around a large otterbox (I like being light on trips?a lot of weight or bulk on my back makes the trip annoying, and I?d rather have fun caving than have a large otterbox with dslr stuff or a larger camera in it, I think).

Anyway, if you want, I?ll let ya know how it goes whence I get it. I should have one before next trip.

 

[Mr Mike]

I'm about to start doing some design work for Olympus in the their high speed camera division (out of interest these things can do up to 40,000fps!) and asked one of the contacts there, anyway he got talking with someone, which I contacted and they have offered me the XZ-1 at staff price + if it does not work well underground or fails due to dirt they will repair or money back, "as they were interested to see how it performs"

If that's the case then I'm suprised you even bothered with this topic!

That was before I though of asking them, and I tend to get a much info before buying something like this before I take the plunge

 

[4bags]

As mentioned by Antmcc, the Canon G series work well underground: I've been using a canon G9 for the last few years and have got good results with it (check out the Flickr link below if you want to see). Also, its proved pretty robust, i have dropped it more than once, its been fully submerged twice, and has been in fairly constant underground use for at least 3 years. Only things that have gone wrong with it are the dial on the back failed from grit overload (not a problem, as it can be bypassed with a button that is used when the camera is in the dive-housing), and there is a small scratch on the lens (the automatic cover on the front of the lense is too close to the outer bit of glass, its a design flaw), but the scratch doesn't show on pictures.
The only precations I have taken to protect it for cave use (apart from carrying it in a Peli case of course!) as some insulating tape over the battery compartment & other openings & hatches to keep the dust out, and a conversion lense adaptor with a filter on the front, to keep dust out of the lense mechanism.
Probably the only relevent features it lacks are a proper bulb setting and a remote port. Great camera - and still going for about ?200 on E-bay!