nearlywhite
Active member
SamT said:
Why (out of interest)?
What's happened?
- Thread starter bubba
- Start date
Why (out of interest)?
Bottlebank
New member
If we had stuff for the Wiki who would we send it to? There don't seem to be any contact details. Who owns and runs it?
What's the situation re copyright etc if we send you stuff?
What's the situation re copyright etc if we send you stuff?
Rhys
Moderator
Bottlebank said:
The idea behind a wiki is that it's user-editable. Any user of UKCaving forum has access to update the wiki. You may need to log in to it though.
The wiki is owned/run by the owners of the UKCaving forum. There is a copyright/licence link on the wiki page: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
Basically, any material on there may be copied, altered and shared, so long as it is attributed to the UKCaving wiki. I don't think the author retains copyright for their submissions.
Rhys
Bottlebank
New member
Rhys said:
That's a pretty general licence?
Just realised I could edit it.
I can't see many people being to happy handing over data to Tim and Jane without at the very least a very clear statement on the Wiki itself as to who they are, what their intentions are etc?
In addition there seem to have been three owners of UK Caving in the last few years - it could change hands again at any time - and it's not as though any of had a chance to say what we thought should happen to it before it was last transferred, or sold - we don't know what happened?
Wouldn't this be something better owned by BCA?
The Wiki came as part of the package when we bought UKC. I have had a few preliminary discussions about its future and I need to have more. I hope to focus on it more later in the year. Any vision I have for the wiki would be along the lines of SamT and I would always be pro free and open access for all to the information it contained. 
Bottlebank
New member
Badlad said:The Wiki came as part of the package when we bought UKC. I have had a few preliminary discussions about its future and I need to have more. I hope to focus on it more later in the year. Any vision I have for the wiki would be along the lines of SamT and I would always be pro free and open access for all to the information it contained.
Tim, my previous comment wasn't meant as a criticism of you or Jane. I've long felt we should have a one stop central repository for all UK cave surveys, data etc but I'm not a big fan of it being owned by individuals - no matter how well intentioned. The UK Caving Wiki seems a great idea in principle, but it's the ownership that worries me.
Rhys
Moderator
Bottlebank said:
Perhaps.
BCA also have a forum. It doesn't see much traffic though. http://british-caving.org.uk/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=29
Bottlebank
New member
Rhys said:
Sorry, meant the Wiki not the forum, but as Tim says if they are part and parcel of the same thing.
One thought springs to mind, which would be to transfer ownership and hosting of the forum including the Wiki to BCA, with the "owners" in effect leasing back the forum, and covering the costs as at present. This would give long term stability/security and Wiki contributions could then be considered to be under the control of BCA rather than the forum owners - I've no idea if they hope to make a profit from it but it would still allow them to benefit.
I'm sure people would be more inclined to give up surveys etc if this was the case. The BCA could drop their own forum, and the Wiki and BCA repository could perhaps be more effectively linked - or at least accessed by a common front end?
I'm not so sure BCA are interested. UKcaving and all that goes with it has effectively been for sale since Bubba decided to part with it. The people who bought UKcaving and UKbouldering from Bubba (in a two for one deal) were only interested in UKbouldering. They would have sold UKC any time in the last four years. A few people in BCA talked about it but never did anything as far as I know. Certainly when we bought it there was no other interested party. Hopefully we can make a good job of it, maybe even better than BCA .
The best place for surveys may be the site run by Cave Mapper - it would be good to get more access to the thumbnails on there.
. The best place for surveys may be the site run by Cave Mapper - it would be good to get more access to the thumbnails on there.
cavermark
New member
I think there's a difference in how the following should be handled, both for UK and Foreign caves:
1) published (or publically available surveys, descriptions etc.)
2) back-ups/archives of survey notes, datasets etc. that may only be for certain members of the digging or expedition team.
A wiki sounds good for (1)
Something like the BCA repository seems good for (2) as it requires a password/login.
Both systems would benefit from some guarantee that they will be maintained indefinitely or convertible if technology changes. The question of who should/will fund them is also raised. I think they could justify a salaried administrator..
1) published (or publically available surveys, descriptions etc.)
2) back-ups/archives of survey notes, datasets etc. that may only be for certain members of the digging or expedition team.
A wiki sounds good for (1)
Something like the BCA repository seems good for (2) as it requires a password/login.
Both systems would benefit from some guarantee that they will be maintained indefinitely or convertible if technology changes. The question of who should/will fund them is also raised. I think they could justify a salaried administrator..
2xw
Well-known member
Rhys said:
Perhaps that's because until it was updated recently with new menus and a blurry background the BCA website was a migraine inducing heap of dead links, bright colours and logos designed in MS paint. Whoever manned the forum must have had a hard time dealing with the delicate combination of semaphore and carrier pigeons one must use to contact the BCA.
Regarding the wiki, information about a lot of caving/caves is so easily available nowadays, with a single click it's often easy to find pictures, surveys, trips reports etc by just googling. Whilst having it all in one place might be nice for advertising purposes I can't imagine it would make the information that much easier to access. Revitalizing it would take a lot of work, I suppose; you'd need a whole new section of this forum for people to argue about access, mine history, digging etc. Can you imagine the wiki entry about CRoW...
