cap n chris
Well-known member
... why not just try the new fashion?.... caving without any hair at all! (oh, apart from little curly bits here and there).
Worst case senario ?
- Thread starter Stupot
- Start date
A
andymorgan
Guest
paul said:
That is one I would like to enter... I want to Thank you etc
Couldn't resist, sorry.
Roger W
Well-known member
Here's something that didn't quite happen to me once in Bagshawe, but it might have done...
You are in the middle of a group, going through a rather tight crawl, much too narrow to turn round in.
The guy in front of you suddenly discovers he's too fat to fit through the next narrow bit.
The guy behind you discovers he's got his backside stuck on a low bit of roof and can't go into reverse.
You are stuck in the middle.
What do you do?
Answers on a postcard, as they used to say...
You are in the middle of a group, going through a rather tight crawl, much too narrow to turn round in.
The guy in front of you suddenly discovers he's too fat to fit through the next narrow bit.
The guy behind you discovers he's got his backside stuck on a low bit of roof and can't go into reverse.
You are stuck in the middle.
What do you do?
Answers on a postcard, as they used to say...
cap n chris
Well-known member
Fart and wait.
Roger W
Well-known member
cap 'n chris said:
Nice constructive suggestion. But the gentleman in front of you is blocking the passage ahead with his beer belly, the guy behind is going into panic mode 'cos he can't work out how to get his pelvis backwards where is slid OK going forwards, and you were already starting to worry about the worsening quality of the air in between...
M
MSD
Guest
I would work on the "what went in must go out" principle. i.e. the guy behind must be able to go backwards, even if he is whining that he can't. If necessary I would apply the full force of my wellingtons on his shoulders. That would presumably provide some help and encouragement!
Mark
Mark
Roger W
Well-known member
MSD said:
I was really hoping for some helpful comments here, as - I believe - was the instigator of this thread...
Further thoughts on Cap'n Chris's suggestion - fart gas, I believe, contains lots of methane. When this gets to the flame of the "Balch's dependable" stuck with a lump of clay to the neb of my flat 'at, there should be a nice bang. The guys on either side of me might - or might not - be blasted clean out of the crawl, depending on how tightly stuck they are. It could also loosen a few flakes of rock (who needs Hilti caps?) and might even widen the crawl a bit. But would it do my situation any good?
Replying to Mark in a more serious vein, are you seriously suggesting this?
It might well be that a bit of reverse thrust, judiciously applied, might shift the poor lad. But it also might just wedge him tighter, when a minor adjustment of his bum a few inches to the left could get him clear of the obstruction and allow him to slide out easily...
If I remember correctly - it was a long time ago now - a little pressure applied by my hands to the soles of the guy in front's boots gave him the necessary psychological boost to push forward and slide through the constriction. (Yes, he was a first-time caver.) So the reversing abilities of the guy behind were never actually put to the test: it was just my hyperactive imagination that conjured up the "I'm trapped in both directions!" situation.
OK, I know you real hard guys (the ones with the beards?) don't know the meaning of the word "PANIC!" But what do the rest of you suggest when things start to look grim and you feel yourself starting to tense up...?
peterdevlin
New member
The beauty of dry caving is that time is usually not a factor as in most cases there is no problem breathing. Every time I've ever been stuck (and I'm a big lad) I've learnt the best is to relax and catch my breath which normally helps. In diving we learn to "stop, breath, think, act". Focusing on breathing usually relaxes the body and helps problem solving. This is particularly true in squeezes. The one time I got stuck in a verticle squeeze the worst that happened was Andy got drenched with water from my wellies ;-(.Roger W said:
As for diving, I don't commit myself remotely as much. Mark's posting (the second on this thread) re God's Bridge risings is a great bit of problem solving where time really is a factor. The time I got lost diving in Linley was abit scary: probably the only time I thought I might be about to die. Trying to think rationally about the problem and keep my air consumption as close to normal as possible (ie only double) was a learning experience.
Peter
caverholic
New member
Sorry to point out the obvious but how do you "stop breath think" when you reg falls out of your mouth :roll:
But it is true this works in most situations.
But it is true this works in most situations.
peterdevlin
New member
Good point ... this is the exception that proves the rule ... typically divers don't let the regs fall out.caverholic said:
M
MSD
Guest
I was imagining discussing with the person behind first before applying force! Bascially I was thinking the same as Roger, that when someone is stuck in a squeeze, it's often useful to have something solid to push against. If some locomotive force is applied, the person can concentrate purely on manipulating their body to fit through the tight bit. As soon as you start struggling, your muscles expand, making you bigger and the task of fitting through harder.
Mark
Mark
peterdevlin
New member
That certainly helps.MSD said:
I had difficulty in a tight (for me) bedding plane in Manchester Bypass in Easegill. On the way in I used substantial energy trying to get thru trying to make big, effortful movements. On the way back (because we couldn't find the wasy for throughtrip), I found that regular but very small movements was dead easy. The more you can move without tensing up the better.
Duncan Price
Active member
peterdevlin said:
This did actually happen to me. After a trip into Daren Cilau through the resurgence I was coming back out when halfway through the sump one of my reg's freeflowed. I shut down the tank and continued out on the other. The situation was a little concering but managable. Unfortunately going through the Pwll-y-Cwm boulder choke my remaining tank stopped delivering air (the tap had rolled off). I was actually so gobsmacked that the reg fell out of my mouth! Fumbling around (not much space) I put a reg back in and it turned out to be the wrong one (which had been giving problems) but once I'd turned the cylinder back on it was working fine again.
Peter - I guess I'll never be able to live down the fact that I was a major contributory factor in you having a moment in Linley Caverns. Sorry.
peterdevlin
New member
Duncan Price said:
Duncan,
Your Pwll-y-Cwm experience sounds abit hairy ... I bet you had a bad second or two. Maybe at one of the WS weekends you could show me where Pwll-y-Cwm is as I want to have a go at it at some point.
Thankfully the Linley jaunt had a good outcome. I see it as one of those profoundly intense learning experiences: problem solving in a "remember not to experience that again" kind of way. One outcome is that I now much more prefer solo cave diving.
Mind how you go.
Ciao,
Peter
A
andymorgan
Guest
peterdevlin said:
This was a very bad experience for me: my life flashed before me!!! Pooee. Would have been worse if you came unstuck and fell on to me though :wink:
peterdevlin
New member
andymorgan said:
Happy days ;-)
cap n chris
Well-known member
langcliffe
Well-known member
Ken Pearce talks about the 1965 Carlswark Cavern incident here: http://caving-library.org.uk/audio/selected.php?id=34
