Author Topic: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip  (Read 29852 times)

Offline bograt

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2014, 01:48:15 pm »
Anyone know about "Yoga" in Dr Jacksons?
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Offline paul

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2014, 01:58:29 pm »
Having had a trip down JH yesterday I would appreciate it if the individual in question could leave the squeezes for now and install a method for getting tackle bags through the Cartgate automatically. Oh, and a winch or two wouldn't go amiss on the pitches.
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Offline jasonbirder

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2014, 03:11:22 pm »
I had a real epic (stripped off the works...I thought we were going to need a bottle of washing up liquid) getting back up through that squeeze in Winnat's a couple of years ago...If I can make it anyone can...and If i had to suffer everyone else should...

Joking aside...we were convinced that someone had altered the squeeze at the end of the mined passage before deep space in Hungerhill..that seems ALOT easier now than it used to...is there a pattern here?

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2014, 04:35:02 pm »
Maybe this fella has taken up caving in the area?

Offline Gollum

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2014, 10:06:10 pm »
Ropes are being left in caves where there is no sign of diggers or divers and tight bits being removed. Are these linked?
A rope has been in place at the Knotlow and Hillocks ends for quiet a while until Masson removed the one at the Hillocks end by mistake when they de-rigged their trip.
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Offline SamT

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2014, 10:09:04 pm »
Ropes are being left in caves where there is no sign of diggers or divers

Interestingly someone had left ropes on the down stream pitches of Winnats Head - seems like a really odd place to leave ropes.

Offline ah147

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2014, 10:15:04 pm »
Gollum if you recall our conversation with a gent after our trip into knot low/hillocks. He is sure they are linked and the same
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Offline Pipster

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2014, 10:26:20 pm »
Joking aside...we were convinced that someone had altered the squeeze at the end of the mined passage before deep space in Hungerhill..that seems ALOT easier now than it used to...is there a pattern here?

Yeah - I was just about to post the same!

The squeeze at the bottom of the second choke in Winnats head has 'gone' also - been modified in the last year or so.

I was a bit gutted about that one as it was really great, took a few goes to get it right, so quite technical, but not impossible and I've seen some fairly chunky folks get though it after a few attempts.  Surely that's part of the fun and pleasure in the physical aspect of caving.
Yeah, with you on that. And it's not just the (fun) physical challenge of getting through squeezes - sometimes its the mental challenge: the fear, the nerves. Some squeezes are relatively straight forward, but some can be challenging mentally and require control over basic natural instincts. Being able to work through that challenge, counteract the fear, and remain calm, is also a very rewarding aspect of caving. Removing the squeezes removes the rewards too...



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Offline pwhole

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2014, 12:24:06 am »
When the PDMHS guys originally excavated the Gentlewoman's system, from the bottom end up, all those interconnected crawls and low chambers from Jant Mine up to the Overseer Chamber were backfilled at the ends, either deliberately by miners or just run-in. I guess they just dug down as far as they needed to get through, rather than the miners setting the depth. I would imagine they would be much larger in mining days, as they had zero interest in a day's work being 'sporting'. Time is money.

The coffin level only had about ten inches of airspace at the top in one section, it being full of silt, and they dug it all out to the moderately uncomfortable height it is today. I suspect many miners were smaller than many of us are now though, if not height-wise, certainly girth-wise.

I don't include myself in the 'comfy' group, BTW  :halo:

Offline JB

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2014, 06:41:55 am »
There are enough people around who have suspicions about who's responsible for enlarging these squeezes. It may be that the wrong guy's been talked about but someone needs to ask the question. Can I suggest that an officer of the guys club has a word this week. If you're an officer of a club and want to know if the fella I'm thinking of is in your club send me a PM.

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Offline JB

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2014, 06:50:57 am »
Anyone know about "Yoga" in Dr Jacksons?

Please don't say the yoga hole has been modified! That would be an absolute travesty.

Offline bograt

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2014, 10:13:21 am »
Anyone know about "Yoga" in Dr Jacksons?

Please don't say the yoga hole has been modified! That would be an absolute travesty.


Only a rumour I heard, thats why I asked.
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Offline Pipster

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2014, 10:33:38 am »
Anyone know about "Yoga" in Dr Jacksons?
Please don't say the yoga hole has been modified! That would be an absolute travesty.
Only a rumour I heard, thats why I asked.

I really f**cking hope that is just a rumour! How long is it since you heard that rumour bograt?

Has anyone been down recently who can verify one way or the other?
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Offline SamT

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2014, 10:45:25 am »
 :o

I thought bograt was asking a question - i.e. has anyone 'checked' yoga.. not implying that it had been modified.

This needs nipping in the bud right now!!  :furious:

Offline Chocolate fireguard

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2014, 12:57:39 pm »
What a lot of fuss! If I had known it would cause all this knicker-twisting I wouldn`t have bothered.
But it`s no fun when you start to struggle with things you have always been able to do. One day you will all realise that.
To help my fellow baby-boomers I was going to ease the Narrows a little in Nettle, and perhaps that annoying bit right at the top of Crumble, but if it`s going to get everybody steamed up I shan`t.

Offline ah147

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2014, 02:41:30 pm »
Obvious troll is obvious?


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Offline cavermark

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2014, 03:44:23 pm »
If a squeeze through bedrock/boulders/calcite is enlarged to fit through at the first instance of exploration and then enlarged again soon after to get bigger members of the digging team through (or if the digging team decide they want to make it passable for a stretcher etc.) this is o.k.   
Once years have passed and lots of people have been through it is not acceptable to further enlarge them.

I'm a large caver and there are some trips I know I will never do e.g. Strans Gill - that's fine - there's more than enough cave that I can fit in.
I had a real struggle with the freeze squeeze to Derbyshire Hall and that is probably close to my limit - but the memory is really vivid and I would be gutted if someone decided to enlarge it.

Offline ah147

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2014, 03:57:15 pm »
I'd say the only justifiable enlargement of established squeezes/routes would be in the case of rescue, in which case if you want to take down dynamite and blast it all to hell it's entirely justifiable. 


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Offline SamT

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2014, 04:57:19 pm »

Yep - what those two just said.

I assume chocolate fireguard is trolling.

Not too sure about digging out gravel/miners fill as in gentlewomans - that will presumably re-fill, or if anyone was super arsed, could be re-instated.

but drilling away/capping etc established 'classic' squeezes, that once altered cannot be re-instated is a hugely selfish act and by all accounts, there seems to be one perpetrator acting outside the normal caving circles and ethics.

I've heard a name bandied about.  Will wait to see what transpires.

Offline ah147

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #44 on: April 07, 2014, 05:03:17 pm »
I've heard a name bandied about too. Unfortunately have the memory of a sieve and can't recall it. Recall his club. But obviously shall not name the club and possibly tarnish a good name.


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Offline Gollum

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2014, 06:40:25 pm »
If people think they know who it is then surely they need to ask the person the question. Then at least the person can either admit or clear their name.

Can't see what can be done even if we find out who it is except ask them not to. Maybe the club committee could raise the issue if the person responsible is a club member
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Offline cavermark

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2014, 07:01:07 pm »

Can't see what can be done even if we find out who it is except ask them not to. Maybe the club committee could raise the issue if the person responsible is a club member


I'm sure they can be asked quite "firmly" if asking them nicely doesn't work...

Offline mmilner

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2014, 09:09:16 pm »
Ropes are being left in caves where there is no sign of diggers or divers

Interestingly someone had left ropes on the down stream pitches of Winnats Head - seems like a really odd place to leave ropes.

I think you will find that it might be to do with this:- "Winnats Head Downstream Pitches Anchors - UPDATED". DCA have been working on them.

There are things going on that not everyone may be aware of, but the work is being undertook for very good reasons.

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Offline Anon

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2014, 09:11:29 pm »
The lad I was with had heard that someone has indeed been going around and targeting 'classic' squeezes.
Let's hope the perpetrator is targeted before any more damage is caused!! Not a Peak regular, more an occasional tourist, would be a shame if everything became overly 'easy'.  :down:

Can't see what can be done even if we find out who it is except ask them not to. Maybe the club committee could raise the issue if the person responsible is a club member

I'm sure they can be asked quite "firmly" if asking them nicely doesn't work...
Kick them out of the club and/or BCA (wouldn't make any difference, they could still go caving and inflict damage) so other measures would obviously have to be taken..


There have been a fair number of examples of this kind of damage over the years, with a variety of reasons given for undertaking it. I can only relate to one (that I've seen changed in my short number of caving years) in Ingleborough Cave, a very brief squeeze that I had done on my first visit was completely obliterated by the time I paid a second visit, an intensely disappointing experience.


There is no argument for it, some people can fit, some can't, get over it. I know full well there are certain places I'll never visit, I accept that and would not go around destroying caves just so I could be a selfish bastard..

Offline bograt

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Re: Squeezes in Gentlewomans to Youds trip
« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2014, 09:17:36 pm »

I really f**cking hope that is just a rumour! How long is it since you heard that rumour bograt?

Has anyone been down recently who can verify one way or the other?

Thats exactly why I asked, Is this such a rarely visited classic?
 (I must admit I have only challenged it 3 times, many years ago)
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