Author Topic: Cave damage  (Read 11707 times)

Offline Les W

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Re: Cave damage
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2006, 09:12:23 pm »
Superglue is not a permanent repair in a wet environment though :(
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Offline SamT

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Re: Cave damage
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2006, 03:42:14 pm »
Is it not the case though that after a few decades - the calcite will start to over grow the repair - and the break will become invisible and eventually - (hundreds/thousands years) - the stal will be just as strong as the next one.

I sure I was told that there is a stal in the peak somewhere - that was accidently knocked off - the culprit felt so guilty - that he drilled out both bits and inserted a peg and stuck it back together.

Offline graham

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Re: Cave damage
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2006, 05:37:05 pm »
Is it not the case though that after a few decades - the calcite will start to over grow the repair - and the break will become invisible and eventually - (hundreds/thousands years) - the stal will be just as strong as the next one.

I sure I was told that there is a stal in the peak somewhere - that was accidently knocked off - the culprit felt so guilty - that he drilled out both bits and inserted a peg and stuck it back together.

I would doubt that someone drilled out the bit left in place as well as the broken bit.
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Offline gus horsley

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Re: Cave damage
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2006, 12:59:48 pm »
Is it true there's a (former) show cave in the Cheddar Gorge that is adorned with stals from other caves because it didn't have any of it's own to speak of?

Offline graham

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Re: Cave damage
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2006, 01:27:34 pm »
Is it true there's a (former) show cave in the Cheddar Gorge that is adorned with stals from other caves because it didn't have any of it's own to speak of?

Given that there is only one former show cave in Cheddar Gorge & given that there are few stals in it anyway, I suspect that the answer is no.
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Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: Cave damage
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2006, 01:40:15 pm »
Gus - there's an artificial grotto somewhere that was decorated with stal nicked from Yorkshire caves (I think), and I have an idea that stuff was shot out of the roof of Wookey Hole for a similar purpose, using guns, in the 18th or 19th century. You see, selfish and greedy rich people from the South-East, ruining the environment of the other regions for their own pleasure. Nothing changes. ;)

Online Roger W

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Re: Cave damage
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2006, 02:03:31 am »
Drilling a couple of holes for a reinforcing peg sounds a good (?) idea if the formation is big enough, but I would be terrified of doing more damage to the bit that was still attached to the cave...  And what would you use for a peg?  A ceramic cylinder?  Stainless steel?  Titanium?

Superglue does seem to have some advantages over epoxy for a clean break - a very thin adhesive layer and a quick set - but Les questions how permanent it would be in a wet cave...

All comments (especially those derived from practical experience) welcome here.  BTW - if anyone is thinking I want to know because I have a guilty secret that I want to repair before any of the conservation-conscious cavers on this forum find out, then sorry, but you guessed wrong.  But I did think it would be a good idea if we could share our experiences so that if an unfortunate accident should happen in the future, people might have an idea what to do.

Having said that, I would hate to think I might have put the idea into anybody's mind that "it doesn't matter too much if you break a few formations 'cos it tells you how to repair them on the UKcaving forum..."   :unsure:

Taking up another point,  was it a good idea even to mention shooting at stalactites?  That could become a popular underground sport - and give a reason for all those guys who insist on lugging ammo boxes through caves...   :down:
"That, of course, is the dangerous part about caves:  you don't know how far they go back, sometimes... or what is waiting for you inside."   JRR Tolkein: "The Hobbit"

Offline fi

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Re: Cave damage
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2006, 02:10:21 pm »
The Victorians were certainly guilty of removing stal from caves to decorate 'grottos' in their posh gardens.  They also managed to clear the countryside of vast amounts of ferns and dark/damp loving plants for the same reasons.  And in return they gave us... rhohododendrons (ok, maybe I can't spell that) in vast numbers spreading across the countryside.

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: Cave damage
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2006, 02:24:23 pm »
Guilty is probably the wrong word. 'Responsible' is better. They had an aesthetic appreciation of the natural world little different to ours, but had a different understanding of the fragility of the natural environment. If they changed a part of their world, they always assumed there was more of the same somewhere else. In the words of Joni Mitchell (spelling?)

"You don't know what you've got till it's gone".



Offline fi

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Re: Cave damage
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2006, 02:42:24 pm »
Certainly those who in the 19th century made their money from industry seemed to think there was no better pastime than attempting to improve on nature (articificial grottos, landscapes etc).  Authors and social commentators of the time mentioned their poor taste and implied that such things were common and crass so perhaps "guilty" is the right term. 

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: Cave damage
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2006, 02:46:02 pm »
Yeah, but.... we have chavs today as well.

 

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