Author Topic: Mossdale - Ouroborous project  (Read 14200 times)

Offline Mr Dinwiddy

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Re: Mossdale - Ouroborous project
« Reply #75 on: May 08, 2019, 09:58:57 pm »
Hello Simon
I have been checking your legends session blog now and again and I am delighted to see that you have some more Mossdale trips to report on. Trying not to apply pressure on you to write up, but just a comment that your blogs are appreciated when you do post. Would have commented direct on your legends blog but could not work out how. Regards, DW

Offline Simon Beck

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Re: Mossdale - Ouroborous project
« Reply #76 on: May 14, 2019, 09:26:18 pm »
Hey Mr Dinwiddy, haven't visited the site much recently, so apologies for late response.

There are three to write up, but nothing of significance, will summarise here. 

Sessions 76-77 were both productive. Scattered excavations were made at the 'Notch', vicinity of during session 76. This area was found to link with the lowest chamber, 'Last Resort'. Bits of surveying were done on both visits. The Boiler Room (aka Early Starter) was quickly surveyed first thing Sesh76, and long overdue having only been entered a few times prior. This chamber was the first discovery early on in the project, entered via a tiered rift climb above the scaffold/choked rift. A section of passage previously missed, heading northwards, formed between blocks, was investigated to a squeeze over pointed boulder, and appearing blind ahead, though I couldn't be 100%, the righthand ¼, beyond squeeze was out of view. I was eager to continue work at the notch after a long lay-off, session 75 Nov18, so left the partially attempted gendarme for another day.       

The 'North East Branch' from Featherstone Ch' was surveyed and probed session 77, and tough going with abundant seepage & morale sapping mud. Looking back I was far from 100% health but got stuck in as usual. Trial holes were made in the false mud/boulder floor, and a small passage noted to one side. The outlet of Last Resort was surmised to link with this, and the better of the two sites to push. Headed out a shivering wreck with some I-phone photography in Boulder Hall to warm back up, before the Swims back out.
Both the above were around the 4.5/5hr mark.
Invigorating they both certainly were, and even after the lay off, relaxed as if going for the milk.   

Alex Ritchie visited and filmed the journey to the choke in March, after a monster flood, but failed to find the way on via the squeeze to the White Hotel.
Although sceptical, I knew there was a possibility the capped boulder, key to the original breakthrough and abandoned to one side, had shifted allowing debris build up to occur.
Under considerably poor health, compared to usual, a quick visit several days later (78) was made with the way on found to be still open. I could see how easy it would be to miss.
An inspection was made of the lower choke to assess whether flooding had opened anything up. A few close calls were had with some large loose boulders.

Any visitors here should be on their guard. Flooding will no doubt have a significant effect on this area, with the opening of something that was a debris choked bottle neck before.

I will try get the survey complete over coming days.
 
Had I known Session 78 would be my last trip, I'd have at least tidied up, and said goodbye to something that's been my primary motivation for a long time, and stretches back to a promise made during those early visits to the site. Caving for sport and conditioning etc... diverted me, then I burnt out and lost the direction necessary for a good number of years.

Interest was rekindled at the site late 2015, and aside from the odd break, I haven't stopped since then. Around 90+ visits since 2015, for Sport, Mossdale Telecom and the Sessions.

In the end it wasn't Mossdale that got me, but myself. I self medicated with outdoor sports for the most part, but got greedy etc...

I flipped my future the bird in my late teens and it finally caught up with me. I saw it coming way back but always had enough stability to just keep my head above water.
I had the opportunity of a bright(er) future, new career, when the sessions were beginning to gather pace, and purposely sabotaged it, choosing Mossdale instead. A last ditch attempt to make the most of all those years, living and preparing in the present, not giving a damn about the future. I can't complain, was a full time job throughout spring/Summer 2018!

Go forth and thrash!

 
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 09:51:06 pm by Simon Beck »

Offline Simon Beck

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Re: Mossdale - Ouroborous project
« Reply #77 on: May 21, 2019, 08:58:59 pm »
The survey so far.

Any recommendations regarding what next would be appreciated. Far from versed with this side of things.

https://simonbeck.blogspot.com/2019/05/mossdale-sessions-survey.html

Offline Mr Dinwiddy

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Re: Mossdale - Ouroborous project
« Reply #78 on: May 21, 2019, 09:36:04 pm »
Thats a classy survey Mr Beck, especially as most or all of it was done alone and by the sound of the blog in challenging conditions. Thanks for taking the time to draw it up and share it with us. I have said before how it brings context to your commentary and the profile does just that. As for recommendations for whats next I can't offer any advice about the survey (or the project). Go where your will takes you! 

Offline Ian Ball

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Re: Mossdale - Ouroborous project
« Reply #79 on: May 21, 2019, 10:28:22 pm »
That is cool, in the days of simple disto shot surveys, this is ace.

Offline Simon Beck

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Re: Mossdale - Ouroborous project
« Reply #80 on: May 22, 2019, 01:30:47 am »
Thats a classy survey Mr Beck, especially as most or all of it was done alone and by the sound of the blog in challenging conditions. Thanks for taking the time to draw it up and share it with us. I have said before how it brings context to your commentary and the profile does just that. As for recommendations for whats next I can't offer any advice about the survey (or the project). Go where your will takes you! 
The survey so far.

Any recommendations regarding what next would be appreciated. Far from versed with this side of things.

https://simonbeck.blogspot.com/2019/05/mossdale-sessions-survey.html

Apologies I wasn't very clear there. I mean't regarding what next with survey...

Offline nobrotson

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Re: Mossdale - Ouroborous project
« Reply #81 on: May 22, 2019, 10:09:07 am »
My suggestion of what to do next is to put your survey data (distance, compass, clino) on the cave registry data repository (or find a geek willing to do it for you). This will mean that if and when the cave gets a resurvey and the exploration here continues people can easily check how accurate it all is. Particularly if there was the possibility of digging a connection to other known passage, knowledge of survey accuracy can be crucial. It also means that people can look at relationships to structural geological trends, for example, helping to advance the science.

In terms of making your survey drawings easier to use in  future, you could digitise the survey drawings using a vector graphics package such as inkscape (which is free) similar to what Si and Di did for the long kin west extensions last year. This way it saves any future resurveyor from redoing all your drawing work. Adding your survey centreline to the drawing would probably be useful to help any future explorers interpret your drawings more clearly.

Is the scale on both plan and profile 1sq/metre?
the man is mentally ill. I have seen him eat a plastic pie.

Offline Balmerfish

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Re: Mossdale - Ouroborous project
« Reply #82 on: May 22, 2019, 10:32:45 am »
Good to see it drawn up Simon.

Adele
We’re in the stickiest situation since Sticky the Stick Insect got stuck on a Sticky bun.

Offline Simon Beck

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Re: Mossdale - Ouroborous project
« Reply #83 on: May 22, 2019, 12:28:34 pm »
My suggestion of what to do next is to put your survey data (distance, compass, clino) on the cave registry data repository (or find a geek willing to do it for you). This will mean that if and when the cave gets a resurvey and the exploration here continues people can easily check how accurate it all is. Particularly if there was the possibility of digging a connection to other known passage, knowledge of survey accuracy can be crucial. It also means that people can look at relationships to structural geological trends, for example, helping to advance the science.

In terms of making your survey drawings easier to use in  future, you could digitise the survey drawings using a vector graphics package such as inkscape (which is free) similar to what Si and Di did for the long kin west extensions last year. This way it saves any future resurveyor from redoing all your drawing work. Adding your survey centreline to the drawing would probably be useful to help any future explorers interpret your drawings more clearly.

Is the scale on both plan and profile 1sq/metre?

Thanks for the advice Rob. Yes the scale is mean't to be 1sq/metre. My heart really wasn't in it, the data collection/surveying side, but still tried to be as accurate as I could. The compass side was very frustrating, esp alone, with a strong suspicion something was throwing them off at times. I'm sure it was just me though overall. 

One thing is certain, it won't be far off, but not fully accurate regarding the true orientation of features.. The final chambers of 'Alley Cat Series' are probably smaller than actual and orientated more to the west, than on the survey. Plus Ouroborous, u/s of dot, was drawn rough. Hence my insistence it's mostly to highlight the discoveries.

However candid I still think they were, the Session's far from portray the difficulty and danger at times. I adapted to it, but would enter Mossdale on many visits accepting I may not make it back out. During many of those final twenty sessions I was pushing my luck a lot and throwing caution aside. However vain it sounds, and after all that, I'd be damned not to gain the recognition the work deserved, with what was found.

The me that existed before the Sessions took hold didn't really resurface fully come autumn last year. I'm where I am now for a whole host of reasons, much of it historical, but when I returned to work in November things quickly went south. I lost touch with reality at some point during that summer.
I probably forced it at times, to justify having sacrificed other things in my life and to get the job done, but did little in the way of a favour for myself.

Others have been critical of my approach and assume mostly that I chose to go it alone. I've explained my reasons to at least one person. All I say is, organising yourself around the weather and that cave is challenging enough, without then adding other people, their families, careers etc... to the mix. I dedicated myself to that project for a period, it hardly makes sense to then handicap myself with those who haven't.

To be honest, I thought that would've been obvious, a given almost. But you'ze haven't spent close to a decade and a half visiting the site frequently. A vast difference in perspective far from qualifies an opinion to begin with, even when you add a brain.

Although the vast majority of work was carried out alone, especially at the 'Trench' and everything beyond 'Hard Cor'rawl' - 'BlowPipe (2nd pitch)'. I can not stress how fundamental Adele Ward's help was in getting the project up and running and keeping me motivated throughout much of it. There were times when the territory beyond gave me the creeps and I lacked the will power to go it on my own. I severed ties there mostly to pressure myself to do just that, and no other reason. Especially when I was running out of time and money and watching good days go by. I'm not proud. She was twice the caver I was when I first began and I always admired that about her.



Offline Simon Beck

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Re: Mossdale - Ouroborous project
« Reply #84 on: May 22, 2019, 03:32:10 pm »
My conclusion relating to the feature are still not dissimilar. I long tossed the old adage it's an aven, although it does connect in some way with the surface above, seepage etc...

A fault formed along that common SW/NE joint trend with downdip down throw. The uniformity of those 90 degree legs may suggest that axis, but my understanding is limited. Prior to faulting it's possible this area was some form of much taller joint guided feature. Again, I accept I could be way off.
The area I worked at the limit of Alley Cat was against solid rock and the possible hanging wall of the fault.

Another thing I suspect is the possibility of an easier way through. I've experienced some strange draughts, especially from the South West, around the low bedding extending away from 'Award Room' and 'Little Shop of Horrors'.

Since dropping the 'BlowPipe' I really haven't had enough time to be completely thorough. That area alone is far from fully ticked, with a few loose ends in the level above. The low bedding extending SW from the 'Award Room' deserves a look for sure.

Following the course of the water thus far appears to be through nightmarishly loose terrain. I couldn't help feel I was on the edge of an abyss down there on occasions.

At a loss as to what to do with myself at the present time. With nothing better, the thought of one last all or nothing push until I can't push any longer is bearing fruit. I feel the need to justify where I am, and the result of it all. I don't appear to know anything else except self abuse as it is.
Suck it all up and beat myself against something real as opposed to this hopelessness. Session 79 may well happen yet.

Note: My reference to the Alley Cat Series in the earlier reply, the chambers are probably bigger than what they are on the survey, it was mean't to read. The Boiler Room was also reduced in width at it's widest point, because of the overlap with below. I hadn't expected to make it so far with the drawing up, and began with little concern toward exactness.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 04:03:11 pm by Simon Beck »

Offline nobrotson

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Re: Mossdale - Ouroborous project
« Reply #85 on: May 22, 2019, 09:45:36 pm »
Hope you get everything you want from the discoveries, these latest reports are the last time I read of anything that interested me on UKCaving for a long time. So if you do anything else make sure you write about it!
the man is mentally ill. I have seen him eat a plastic pie.

Offline Simon Beck

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Re: Mossdale - Ouroborous project
« Reply #86 on: May 23, 2019, 03:44:27 pm »
Hope you get everything you want from the discoveries, these latest reports are the last time I read of anything that interested me on UKCaving for a long time. So if you do anything else make sure you write about it!

Thank you Rob. It is a comfort to know it's appreciated.

Although slow work, I'm in the process of writing up the final three.

Added ink to survey and updated pictures. Hopefully an improvement on before.

Offline Kenilworth

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Re: Mossdale - Ouroborous project
« Reply #87 on: May 23, 2019, 09:12:25 pm »
Have enjoyed reading, and appreciate your maps too. The author of a well-known US book about cave surveying once said, in print, "cave maps do not need to be super accurate."  Of course, he lived to regret that statement as surveying "progressed" to new speeds and greater precision and his old work became seen as obsolete. But I still believe the original premise. Cave mapping is part art, part documentation, part chest beating, part practical. Only very rarely is there use for extreme accuracy or precision. Your maps are an artifact and an interpretation of your work and its place. Well done.

Offline Simon Beck

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Re: Mossdale - Ouroborous project
« Reply #88 on: June 06, 2019, 07:18:45 pm »
A couple of recent additions.

Mossdale Sessions Survey - https://simonbeck.blogspot.com/2019/05/mossdale-sessions-survey.html

Mossdale Session 76 & Other favourites (part one) - https://simonbeck.blogspot.com/2019/06/mossdale-session-76-other-favourites.html

Offline Simon Beck

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Re: Mossdale - Ouroborous project
« Reply #89 on: June 11, 2019, 12:56:01 pm »
Although the caving is far from prominent in these previous few pieces, covering the whole - the other side of the sessions, and what was going on in the background - is just as relevant I feel.

https://simonbeck.blogspot.com/2019/06/mossdale-session-77-other-favourites.html