Long Kin West rigging

Badlad

Administrator
Staff member
LKW has been rigged since mid March to allow exploration and conservation work to take place. Some 35 trips in all.  During all that time no problems with the rigging had been encountered until this Sunday when the cave was due to be derigged.  On this occasion the two surface belays had been undone and the rope chucked down so it hung from the first rebelay.  Tampering with rigged gear is a hazard one just has to accept and it was lucky that no one was down the cave at the time as it is easy to rectify from above but more serious from below.  Following on from the tampering of ropes in Bar Pot this is just a reminder to beware.

Although the main routes have been derigged, the tensioned line and abseil rope into the Late Breakfast series is still there.  This is rigged from concrete screws at the moment but it is hoped to eventually replace them with resin anchors.  Anyone using these ropes should preform their own assessment before using.

I hope to write something up on our discoveries and related work soon.
 

SimonP

New member
This is the second such incident I've heard of recently. The other being at Bar Pot a couple of weeks ago when a carabiner was removed from the top of the first pitch. I think this warrants police involvement.
 

Badlad

Administrator
Staff member
I think cavers just need to look out for themselves.  There is very little any police involvement could achieve - except possibly backfire on the caving community. 

Unfortunately the savage austerity cuts has left the police unable to respond to anything but their priorities and I doubt this would be one of those.  It was widely reported that Thwaites brewery was invaded by a large group of travellers a couple of months ago.  They smashed the place up causing loss of production and thousands of pounds worth of damage.  Much of the criminal activity on the site was caught on CCTV and replayed on the local news.  The police left the scene citing other priorities elsewhere and the travellers were left to go freely about their criminal activity.  Then they left them just get away with it. What hope for a mystery person who tampers with somebodies rigging?
 

Simon Beck

Member
Same goes for any personal items left near the surface. I've had two occasions this past year where our bags were rummaged through, even though they were deemed well out of the way.

I think police involvement would be unwise as well. Folk just need to remain vigilante.   
 

Alex

Well-known member
Same goes for any personal items left near the surface. I've had two occasions this past year where our bags were rummaged through, even though they were deemed well out of the way.

So this is the normal place we store the gear (on past trips) and they have been rummaged though there? How the heck did they know stuff was there in the first place? Best make sure everything is locked in the car then, but then some toe-rag will probably break into that.
 

Simon Beck

Member
Alex said:
Same goes for any personal items left near the surface. I've had two occasions this past year where our bags were rummaged through, even though they were deemed well out of the way.

So this is the normal place we store the gear (on past trips) and they have been rummaged though there? How the heck did they know stuff was there in the first place? Best make sure everything is locked in the car then, but then some toe-rag will probably break into that.

Yep. Only takes a mobile phone light and a bit of curiosity to make them accessible. Got to adapt and take further preventative measures, that's all.
 

Inferus

New member
Unbelievable what idiots are around these days.

As for gear, if I had need to take stuff to the cave I might now be tempted to pop it in a dry bag and take it underground, far enough in to be out of easy reach.. :(
 

Simon Beck

Member
Had an instance last year when I'd entered the cave earlier than my partners, who'd arrived to find some non caving visitors playing about in the entrance. One of them heard the non cavers mention something about seeing a bag, which they'd removed from hiding, riffled through and then dumped in plain view of the surface. I was pretty pissed off afterwards, not just with the people who'd done this but my partners that day, for not realising my bag was not in it's usual hiding place, even though they'd heard them mention my bag, which spent the remainder of the day at the mercy of everybody else that visited. Strangely my phone, keys and all other effects, except some i-phone head phones, were still present.
I now take my bags a little further in, but still not far enough for someone ambitious. 
 

mattajperry

New member
I often leave anything im not taking in on the 1st pitch . clip it up to an available anchor or suitable shelf. Never had an issue.
 

SimonP

New member
It might be a good idea to rig the top of the fist pitch with maillons rather than carabinas. Tighten them with a spanner. They're harder to remove and less desirable as well. At this rate someone could get stranded underground or worse.
 

Wolfo

Member
Is it usual in the UK to leave ropes/stuff in non-locked caves?

Here in Germany we'll never do that.
Leave something and you can be sure it's gone the next day.  :mad:
Maybe also a question of puplic mentality, but if it's worth a penny somebody will take it here away, for sure.
 

Badlad

Administrator
Staff member
Wolfo said:
Is it usual in the UK to leave ropes/stuff in non-locked caves?

Here in Germany we'll never do that.
Leave something and you can be sure it's gone the next day.  :mad:
Maybe also a question of puplic mentality, but if it's worth a penny somebody will take it here away, for sure.

It is normal to leave caves rigged for projects.  There are few reported cases of tampering - some accidental and some on purpose I dare say.  In this case it is a surface shaft left rigged for four months and only minor tampering on one occasion.  This is a relatively remote area, seldom visited by the public so an acceptable risk.  Other cavers usually respect them.
 

topcat

Active member
Last year I left LKW rigged for a week and my surface rigging was interfered with by something with sharp teeth!  Fortunately I'd used a 6m length down to the first Y hang so nothing too expensive went in the bin.  :mad:

Cavers have been stranded before due to theft of ropes, necessitating a call out.  I guess it's going to happen again some day.
 

Badlad

Administrator
Staff member
Interesting Topcat.  A month ago we hauled out a dead lamb which had fallen down the shaft (to stop it stinking the place out).  Dumped it in a nearby shakehole and it was reduced to a few bits of wool in a week.  Last week we found a dead ewe down there and hauled it out.  It is now reduced to a horn, a small piece of jaw and assorted leg bones which I expect by now will be gone.  Don't fall asleep up there for too long or the beast will have you. :eek:
 

Simon Wilson

New member
I'm quite surprised that gear has been tampered with at LKW. It's quite off the beaten track and I wonder who it could have been.

I've often left gear lying about on the surface at cave entrances. I've always assumed that if it's somewhere away from popular paths and a place where you would only expect cavers to go that it would be left alone because if cavers came across it they would respect it.

In the same way I've also left gear lying around in alpine and other wilderness areas in the expectation that there is a spirit of camaraderie amongst all outdoor types and that gear will be safe - and it always has been. You will often find expensive gear left in remote bivi huts.

Regarding carrion being quickly reduced on Ingleborough, I wonder if it is anything to do with there not having been a gamekeeper for a long time and that the predators and scavengers are left alone free of persecution.
 

caving_fox

Active member
For ropes left in place for long periods of time I thought usual practise was to de-rig the top pitch each time, so that no-one curious would have the opportunity to get themselves or the gear into trouble. Certainly that's how Aquamole was left, and I'm sure others I've come across.
 
Somewhere like lkw  is off the beaten track a bit...Bar was troubling enough.
There will be an increase in maillon and spanner sales.....perhaps even for short trips, not just 'projects'.
 
Top