Author Topic: Carlswalk explorings. any tips  (Read 1753 times)

Offline benshannon

  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • NUCC
Carlswalk explorings. any tips
« on: November 08, 2019, 08:06:27 pm »
Im going into carlwalk on tuesday with a friend. we did it earlier this year and i loved it. a few questions.

we did porth crawl, then did and ascending rift, but then had to turn back. is that ascending rift what leads to picnic passage? worth an explore?

we did the dynamite series so turned off before stalactite passage. is that worth a look? i see that it sumps out eventually.

thanks


Online Topimo

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 436
  • School of Karst Rocks. University of NiFe.
Re: Carlswalk explorings. any tips
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2019, 11:53:28 pm »
Sounds like you may have been in Clog Passage, from Porth Crawl it ascends slightly and steeply into Clog Passage (and once in Clog Passage you pass the Codeine Connection on your right, this loops back into Fall Chamber), Clog Passage continues to Final Aven where you will find Picnic Passage in the floor on the right. Low, wet, and very unappealing. So yeah, keep poking your head around where you were. From the handful I've times I've been down there I found it easier going from Falls Chamber, then dropping into the Codeine Connection with the helmet off tuck and roll move, and then back out down the steep rift towards Porth Crawl, as gravity is on your side for the awkward bits.

Back near the intersection of the Codeine Connection and Clog Passage there is a dig in the floor that leads to Fireset Mine - this would be where the miners originally had access to Clog passage from I believe. You will see some old stacked deads, and the passage is named because cavers (John Beck?) found little kiddies clog prints in there when originally explored, children were used to explore ahead by the miners because they were even smaller versions of the already stout Derbyshire t'owd man. Porth Crawl I think was named by the diggers at the time (possibly Norman from SUSS told me this?) because they had forcibly extradited some chemical persuasion from the mines/quarries down in Porthcawl, S.Wales for use in Derbyshire, some may have been used to open up this tight section.

A word of caution, the Peak District has had some freakish rain in the last 24h, for most places with good flow it will be clearing/have cleared by the time you arrive, however there are some static puddles and ducks in Picnic that may be higher than usual due to extra percolation water, turning an unpleasant but challenging bit of cave into an unpleasant and unsafe one (if you've never been there before).

However it's unlikely to be an issue, and everything before Picnic will drain nicely so there's no harm having a look, and the whole system is very good to explore. Plenty of info on here if you search for Picnic Passage, Clog Passage, Porth Crawl etc. posts from me, Jon Pemberton/the Pemberton Brothers, Rob Eavis, Mel Milner. Mel and the Pembertons being the most active digging in Picnic, anyone else has had more sense and stayed away.

There will be some hose and tools left behind in there if you want to do your bit for cave conservation...Enjoy!

Offline benshannon

  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • NUCC
Re: Carlswalk explorings. any tips
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2019, 08:51:01 am »
We got excited about digging in picnic. However we couldn't even get to dynamite series. It was flooded at what I call the acme tunnel. You turn right after coming out of a tube with black rubber on and crawl through a sketchy looking tunnel held up by wooden stakes. The water was right to the top of the tunnel and flowing through fast. We went around the other way and that too dumped out before we could get to dynamite 😭

It wasn't all bad, we went and explored all of the side bits and noticed lots of digs going on.

We are keen to get involved if people need help digging. 😁😁😁

Online Topimo

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 436
  • School of Karst Rocks. University of NiFe.
Re: Carlswalk explorings. any tips
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2019, 11:31:25 am »
Still plenty of water in the Big Dig area then?

Did you have a look at the highest entrance that drops into the Dynamite series? It's called "Flowerpot", with the 6m vertical blue pipe shaft, is that what you mean by "the other way"? I'd expect that to be dry, and it's the much more direct route in to Picnic, how far in did you get there? Cool.

There are lots of places to dig however I don't imagine any are currently being pursued. If any take your fancy have at it! Obviously taking appropriate conservation measures into consideration if applicable. And it's worth finding out what you can about each dig i.e. where they may lead and why, and why the original/most recent diggers aren't still pushing them.

Best,
Tommy




Online alastairgott

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1660
  • It's Therion Month.
Re: Carlswalk explorings. any tips
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2019, 02:27:20 pm »
I don’t know anything really about carlswark. Tommy’s done a great job of that, but I was given a survey by a red rose member who moved north of the border. The survey is the ‘83 survey by EPC and TSG.
Scraps and Maps, Scraps and Maps, Squawk, pretty polly...

Offline 2xw

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 510
  • BPC, SUSS
Re: Carlswalk explorings. any tips
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2019, 05:54:43 pm »
Haha I looked at that shoring in Big Dig years ago and brought it up as somat that needs replacing as it's getting a bit fucked - but last 6 years since I first went there so can't be too bad.
Since my initial enthusiasm watching Topimo dig in a wetsuit in there ("yeah mate no problem I'll do the hauling yeah crack on") I don't think the prospects of digging in Carslwark are that exciting - porth and the digs Tommy talks about will go to EDHC (making probably the most squalid through trip in Derbyshire?) and possibly rightwards towards Ivy Green (breaking into the upstream of that potentially not an exciting prospect)
If you find anything that pops past the sumps tho... believe there's a dig near gnome passage above shags sump that looks interetsing but abandoned?

Online Topimo

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 436
  • School of Karst Rocks. University of NiFe.
Re: Carlswalk explorings. any tips
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2019, 05:57:39 pm »
I don't think the prospects of digging in Carslwark are that exciting - porth and the digs Tommy talks about will go to EDHC (making probably the most squalid through trip in Derbyshire?)

One for Derbyshire's "Brown Book" to compliment the Dales' "Black Book". For whoever wants to write it.

Offline martinb

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 642
  • In Normandy, France, not close to Limestone
Re: Carlswalk explorings. any tips
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2019, 08:37:55 pm »
I have spent more time than I care to think about in Stoney Middleton, and especially in Carlswark.

I think there is some potential in the area around Eyam Shaft, if you wiggle into the chamber to the WEST of the shaft, i.e. not into the main system, there's a nice mud slope leading upwards into a rift/aven feature that could repay a digger.

Also the connection between Carlswark and Gimli's Dream needs checking, we reopened it about 7 or 8 years ago, not John Beck's original connection, but a bypass to the left of the concreted connection. Rumour has it that mud/scree/gravel/grot has fallen into it.

Also the first chamber through the connection on the Merlin Mine side has a blockage towards the end on the left which may repay a poke around.

Other places in Stoney that may yeild to a determined digger:

Nickergrove Mine - the Streamway Chamber at the very bottom - access upstream and downstream -  abit of a mare to get to.

Sunday Mine - connection between that and the upper Sunday Mine - Aarons Entrance - voice connection and through draught. 5 mins easy caving to work point.

Streaks Pot - West Choke- very draughty - long hard trip nto digging front.

Yoga Hole - big draughty unstable choke - prob no more than 10 to 15 mins crawling to get to.

I'm sure with a bit of thought I can point you towards others......

Offline 2xw

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 510
  • BPC, SUSS
Re: Carlswalk explorings. any tips
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2019, 11:36:36 pm »
There's also Layby shelter which is John Beck's old dig (thereafter dug by SUSS)
A phreatic on the left hand side of the left fork of the modern mine between lay-by shelter and the Furness quarry carpark
Is hole in the wall worth a look?

Offline pwhole

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1582
  • TSG, DCA, PDMHS
    • Phil Wolstenholme website
Re: Carlswalk explorings. any tips
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2019, 12:11:38 am »
Also the connection between Carlswark and Gimli's Dream needs checking, we reopened it about 7 or 8 years ago, not John Beck's original connection, but a bypass to the left of the concreted connection. Rumour has it that mud/scree/gravel/grot has fallen into it.

Me and Alex got through from Gimli's Dream into Carlswark last summer simply by following the draught (we'd never done it before), and it wasn't blocked anywhere as far as I could see. The only sketchy part of the trip was then going back to Merlin's to retrieve our harnesses and remembering that they were at the bottom of the internal shaft - and we were at the top - doh. After free-climbing it both ways I did wonder why we'd bothered with the SRT kit...

Offline benshannon

  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • NUCC
Re: Carlswalk explorings. any tips
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2019, 01:52:21 pm »
we went upto the Acme tunnel. That wooden archway you can see. the flow of water was really strong and we decided too dangerous to try and get through. so we went back and along cockle passage around from stalictie passage side but it sumped out before the right turn into dynamite.
 
we are keen to do any exploring and digs :) people seem to hate this cave but i love it.

Offline benshannon

  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • NUCC
Re: Carlswalk explorings. any tips
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2019, 01:54:32 pm »
acme tunnel

Offline benshannon

  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • NUCC
Re: Carlswalk explorings. any tips
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2019, 02:02:48 pm »
also, is the 1983 survey the most up to date one? one of the passages near eyam dale shaft has had a collapse and you cannot get through, this has clearly happened since 1983.

Offline aardgoose

  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 45
  • DCA DCRO
Re: Carlswalk explorings. any tips
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2019, 02:28:46 pm »
The latest date on John Beck's survey for Carlswark is 2009 but there isn't a revision history, so not easy to see what has changed since 83.

Offline 2xw

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 510
  • BPC, SUSS
Re: Carlswalk explorings. any tips
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2019, 04:10:16 pm »
The latest date on John Beck's survey for Carlswark is 2009 but there isn't a revision history, so not easy to see what has changed since 83.

IIRC he resurveyed a bit that was a tiny bit out. The bit from eyamdale shaft to merlins was concreted on purpose, dunno when

Offline martinb

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 642
  • In Normandy, France, not close to Limestone
Re: Carlswalk explorings. any tips
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2019, 05:09:09 pm »


IIRC he resurveyed a bit that was a tiny bit out. The bit from eyamdale shaft to merlins was concreted on purpose, dunno when

Its was concreted up in about 1973 after a leader trip group trashed the stal in Gimli's dream, people thought it better to protect what stal remained.

Obviously in more enlightened days, we thought it prudent to have a look at reopening said connection.

After a couple of sessions digging from the Carlswark side we hit concrete. We did have a go at breaking it up, but it proved to thick and resilient. It was only when one of our party had approached the connection from the Merlin's side, that he noticed a gap between scree and rock, which, with a little digging - probably 30 minutes worth - was passed in both directions!


Offline Mark

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1211
  • Eldon Pothole Club
Re: Carlswalk explorings. any tips
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2019, 08:50:31 am »
this would be where the miners originally had access to Clog passage from I believe. You will see some old stacked deads, and the passage is named because cavers (John Beck?) found little kiddies clog prints in there when originally explored,

Just for the record John Beck wasn't involved in the original exploration beyond Porth Crawl it was SUSS and South Yorkshire Caving Club - 1972, and you are right about the chemical persuasion