Over 70's to stay in for 3 months!

[royfellows]

My lifestyle is rather solitary anyway. 4 nights a week at martial arts, which will close, and Supermarket shopping twice a week.
"Travelling" involves half a day working on a hill at Cwmystwyth and then lunch at the car, and on to a solo digging project. Never see a soul.
Possibly explains my attitude a bit clearer.

I am OK in my own company.

[Graigwen]

My isolation ward has no facilities apart from cold running water!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/11409438@N06/49002489398/in/album-72157679947221496/

.

[Badlad]

Warning - political rant.

Is it ironic.  I don't know, but a thought occurred to me.  We are told that a lot of the over 70's vote Tory and yet the Tory government have been responsible for ten years of austerity cuts to the NHS and worse for social care.  Now when we need it most we find the NHS on its knees, a lack of beds, a lack of staff, a lack of ventilators, and social care barely existing.  Now to protect the over 70's, in part due to the reduced capacity of the NHS to manage such a pandemic we've all got to drastically change our lives and sit at home.  Perhaps it will take this tiny little virus to show our voters that the health of a nation is more important than money and business or the weaselly words of the 'I'm all right Jack' politicians.

[speliox]

Apologies, no serious insult was intended!
Good luck to all, particularly old gits (self included).

[Stuart Anderson]

Rather selfish attitude from Old Ruminator and Roy Fellows don’t you think? F**k off!

My life, my risk. And as others have mentioned, I never get to see anyone anyway.
Over 70 s are not more likely to carry it, just more likely to snuff it if they get it.

With all due respect Roy, it's not just about you. Think about the what if you're unnecessarily taking up a hospital bed because you contracted the virus. Unnecessary because of a 'feck off' attitude.

[Speleotron]

It's not just about transmission of the virus. If you get hurt in the dig you'll be taking up a much-needed hospital bed. We're all going to have to make some big sacrifices to get through this. We can live without digging for a while.

[Fulk]

We are told that a lot of the over 70's vote Tory

I'm glad you said 'a lot of over-70s' (not 'most' over-70s), badlad. 

[royfellows]

"With all due respect Roy, it's not just about you. Think about the what if you're unnecessarily taking up a hospital bed because you contracted the virus. Unnecessary because of a 'feck off' attitude."

>Who from?

"It's not just about transmission of the virus. If you get hurt in the dig you'll be taking up a much-needed hospital bed. We're all going to have to make some big sacrifices to get through this. We can live without digging for a while."

>Would't need a hospital bed, it would be a slab when eventually I was got out.

[Speleotron]

You don't know that. Loads of caving injuries need hospitalisation, and you'd make the rescue team spend a lot of time in close quarters with each other and risk spreading the virus. Cavers aren't special here, we all need to give things up over the next few months.

[royfellows]

Here is a thought

Anyone who has the time go to the Office of Public Statistics and look up how many people are killed or injured each year in their own home.

My intelligence tells me that anyone who does stay at home will soon get bored and look for jobs to do around the house. DIY and power tools, step ladders etc.

But falling down stairs is most common one I believe. I live in a bungalow so i suppose this is an inherently safer environment.

Last winter I was carrying stuff from the car in the dark and had both hands full. On an unlit part of the path I tripped and fell right on my chest, a right bang. Having hands full prevented me instinctively rolling out of it. Lucky for me I have a very hard old body from all the stuff I do and ached for a few days but that was it.

[Speleotron]

I don't think mooching around the house will ever be as dangerous as digging. Whatever, it's up to your conscience. I would be very annoyed if I needed a hospital bed to get over the disease and it was taken by somebody who'd gone digging, or if I was a CRO member safely isolated in my house and I had to go and rescue somebody and risk bringing the virus back to my family.

[2xw]

Not surprised at this attitude - the 60-80s age bracket are the most entitled generation to have walked this planet. My elderly relatives have similar attitudes in response to efforts to keep them alive. Weird.

[Stuart Anderson]

Here is a thought

Anyone who has the time go to the Office of Public Statistics and look up how many people are killed or injured each year in their own home.

My intelligence tells me that anyone who does stay at home will soon get bored and look for jobs to do around the house. DIY and power tools, step ladders etc.

But falling down stairs is most common one I believe. I live in a bungalow so i suppose this is an inherently safer environment.

Last winter I was carrying stuff from the car in the dark and had both hands full. On an unlit part of the path I tripped and fell right on my chest, a right bang. Having hands full prevented me instinctively rolling out of it. Lucky for me I have a very hard old body from all the stuff I do and ached for a few days but that was it.

Again Roy, respect etc. but today I'm looking at a work diary that has gone blank. Just like that. No work. I have family (wife, two kids). I'm self employed so not entitled to sick pay. I might make the cut off for Universal Credit but by dint of the fact that I have some meager savings, well we'll see.

My wife works in the clinical side of a hospital. She's the breadwinner plus on the frontline for the care of the people who will present in the not so distant future. That's will present, not if. The spread of the virus needs to be contained so we can flatten out the hit on an already beleaguered NHS. We have capacity to look after approx. 0.2% of the population in ICU - about 130,000 beds. Not nearly enough ventilators.

Not going out and potentially spreading the virus (you may or may not ever present with symptoms, you may or may not ever get infected, who knows) is the socially responsible thing to do. Please try to think about what that actually means. No one is saying lock yourself inside for 12 weeks. Great for you (or not as I suspect) that you don't meet people, but you just don't know. Please stop with the blase attitude.

[Speleotron]

Selfishness will get a lot of people killed over the next few months. We can live without digging.

[tony from suffolk]

Surely the important point to all this is to avoid close contact with other people. Like others here, I live in the back of beyond and walk our dogs every morning. I seldom see a soul and those that I do glimpse are inevitably some distance away, so just a cheery wave. I really cannot see why folk should not go digging, walking the dog, or indulge in other solitary pursuits. It's important for us old fogies to keep fit and active, and as long as we understand how the virus is transmitted, what the symptoms are etc. then we're intelligent enough to keep ourselves and others safe.

A good point from Badland regarding the parlous state of the NHS, made a damn sight worse by the loss of so many nurses, foreign nationals, as a direct result of Brexit.

[Speleotron]

If you get injured digging then you take up a hospital bed and risk the health of the rescue team. That's the problem.

[royfellows]

So, suppose that an 'over 70' decides to fuel his or her car and use 'pay at pump' with a card. Drives to the fells or high peak, and goes walking on their own. Then back home

Surely if people lock themselves away in the house for weeks at a time without fresh air or exercise they will be hitting the Health Service for other reasons?

[paul]

A thought: would travelling to and from the dig site constitute "unnecessary travel"?

[royfellows]

A thought: would travelling to and from the dig site constitute "unnecessary travel"?

I would say yes. But to what consequence in itself?

[Stuart Anderson]

So, suppose that an 'over 70' decides to fuel his or her car and use 'pay at pump' with a card. Drives to the fells or high peak, and goes walking on their own. Then back home

Surely if people lock themselves away in the house for weeks at a time without fresh air or exercise they will be hitting the Health Service for other reasons?

Are you somehow magically holding the nozzle without recourse to your hands? Gloves perhaps? Better make sure you take your own. Oh, and a mask as well, because that bloke next to you has just sneezed. What do you mean you put your keys and fuel cap on the top of the pump?

And with that, I wish you well Roy. Out.

[royfellows]

It gets worse than that.
I import electronic components from China!

[Alex]

I do worry with all the lock down there will be an obesity epidemic as well! (unless food supplies run out of course).

[royfellows]

I do worry with all the lock down there will be an obesity epidemic as well! (unless food supplies run out of course).

I think that's mainly an issue with younger people.
 

[Ed]

Nah - let the over 70s go out

25% of working men weren't supposed to reach pension age.

More of the old codgers we can shuffle off - better your (ie my) rubbish pension gets. They've had a good innings of pay and rewards the kids of today will never know.

(a more or less verbatim quote from my 80 year old father)

 

[paul]

From the European Spleological Federation:

To all national caving organisations, delegates and cavers -
À toutes les organisations spéléologiques nationales, délégués et spéléologues

English version

Please share this message to the clubs and cavers.

Within just a short time daily life in most countries of the world has radically changed as a result of the outbreak of the Coronavirus COVID-19. Cafés, shops and schools are closed, flights, holidays and activities of all sorts including events are cancelled or prohibited and some borders are closed for traffic. Close contacts with people must be significantly reduced or avoided and, in some countries, communities are placed in quarantine. All this to crack down on the spread of the coronavirus and in order to maintain the quality of our healthcare. These measures from various countries have an impact on the practise of caving/speleology in any form, no matter the size of caving parties.

Speleological Federations of various countries such as Austria, Belgium, France, Italy and Spain urge their members not to undertake any form of caving activities, including climbing, canyoning or diving and to stay at home. Not only to avoid contacts between people, but also to reduce the likelihood rescues, which will be an additional burden on already overloaded public and health services. Moreover, in various countries sport and recreational activities are prohibited by law for the weeks to come.

The Bureau of the European Speleological Federation FSE therefore strongly recommends cavers to reconsider their caving activities and events and keep an eye on the media because the situation changes every day. What is possible today will be prohibited tomorrow. Please respect the measures taken by every individual country.

The FSE Bureau hopes all cavers and caving organisations will have the fortitude to hold out during this difficult period to come and we hope to see you all safe and sound after this crisis. Make responsible judgments and act with common sense. This is not only for yourself but especially for the people around you.

Best wishes,
FSE Bureau members