Author Topic: Starting caving again - when?  (Read 2443 times)

Offline Barny

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Re: Starting caving again - when?
« Reply #50 on: May 12, 2020, 02:06:24 pm »
From before lockdown emails have been sent from the FFS (the French BCA)  to its membership. I am not 100% sure but believe we are all individual members albeit signing up by your club in as in my case. This morning we have been told that caving and canyoning can resume with certain restrictions to the size of cave and difficulty of the trip.
Google translate does a reasonable job

Reprise des activités


Chères licenciées, chers licenciés,

Nous vous remercions d'avoir patienté aussi longtemps. Mais nous avons maintenant le plaisir de vous annoncer que le ministère des Sports, sur proposition de notre fédération, a autorisé la pratique de la spéléologie, du canyonisme et de la plongée souterraine. Les conditions ayant encore évolué récemment suite aux derniers arbitrages du ministère des Sports et du ministère de la Santé, nous avons préféré attendre afin de vous diffuser un document définitif et officiellement validé.

Même si les annonces du Premier ministre, jeudi dernier, laissaient à penser que nos activités seraient autorisées, les spécificités de la spéléologie, du canyonisme et de la plongée souterraine ont rendu complexes les prises de décisions des services de l’Etat pour permettre leurs reprises : le partage de matériel (cordes notamment) et nos environnements de pratiques n'ont pas rendu si évidentes les négociations. C'est pourquoi nous avons proposé au ministère des adaptations de pratique en spéléologie, canyonisme et plongée souterraine qui permettaient de lever tout doute sanitaire, pour vous permettre de pratiquer à nouveau, dès le 11 mai.

C'est tout un travail d'équipe qui a mobilisé la direction technique nationale, les écoles, la commission secours, la commission médicale et qui a été porté vigoureusement par notre Président et notre Directrice technique nationale. Pensez à les remercier quand vous les croiserez.

Ces adaptations, valables du 11 mai au 2 juin, ont été conçues pour:
   - limiter la transmission du virus lors de nos activités en respectant les règles de distanciation imposées et le respect des gestes barrières,
   - permettre une intervention des sauveteurs sans cumuler les contraintes (permettre le passage d'une civière sans désobstruction, par exemple).

La spéléologie est autorisée dans les cavités de classe 3 maximum (cf. référentiel ci-joint) et limitées à quelques dizaines de mètres de dénivelé cumulé et quelques centaines de mètres de développement. Les cavités pratiquées ne devront pas présenter d'étroitures et devront permettre la circulation des sauveteurs et d'une civière sans intervention supplémentaire (désobstruction, ...) en cas de secours.

Le canyonisme pourra être pratiqué dans tous les canyons dont la cotation ne dépasse pas V3 pour le caractère vertical (cf. référentiel ci-joint également).

Les plongées spéléologiques s'effectueront dans les courbes de sécurité et pour des durées maximales d'une heure.

Ces adaptations n'étant qu'un aperçu des différentes préconisations, nous vous recommandons donc, avant d'enfiler vos combinaisons, de lire attentivement les consignes générales (pp. 5 et 6 du Guide sanitaire et médical), ainsi que celles spécifiques à nos activités (spéléologie, canyonisme et plongée souterraine), figurant dans le guide « Reprise des activités sportives » joint (pp. 79 à 81 ou en cliquant sur spéléologie dans le sommaire), avant de profiter pleinement de vos sorties !!!  

Nous attirons votre attention toute particulière sur la nécessité de se nettoyer les mains avant et après l’activité, à l’eau et au savon, bio-dégradable quand cela est possible, ou au gel hydro-alcoolique, afin de favoriser la non-transmission du virus à vos coéquipiers ou coéquipières. Ce n’est pas forcément un réflexe que nous avons déjà acquis !

Nous sommes heureux que nos activités puissent reprendre et nous vous souhaitons d'en profiter pleinement, en prenant soin de vous et de vos proches! Nous continuons de travailler en étroite collaboration avec le ministère des Sports pour favoriser une réouverture complète de nos activités dès que les conditions sanitaires le permettront.
Bien à vous,
Le bureau fédéral.


28, rue Delandine - 69002 LYON - Tel. : 04 72 56 09 63

https://ffspeleo.fr


Offline Badlad

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Re: Starting caving again - when?
« Reply #51 on: May 12, 2020, 02:27:32 pm »
Thanks Barny.  Interesting - no squeezes and very limited vertical elevation.  Is a grade three cave, similar to our grading?  Cheers

Offline pwhole

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Re: Starting caving again - when?
« Reply #52 on: May 12, 2020, 02:47:33 pm »
Quote
Speleology is authorized in class 3 cavities maximum (see attached reference system) and limited to a few tens of meters of cumulative elevation gain and a few hundred meters of development. The cavities made must not have any narrowings and must allow the circulation of rescuers and a stretcher without additional intervention (unclogging, ...) in the event of rescue.

I don't see how that works at all. Specifying a 'type' of cave passage it's OK to be in, but not others? What kind of magical cave is this? Washing your hands before and after? What about coughing and spluttering? People do that a lot while they're caving. No mention of face masks. I appreciate this is France, and they're ahead of us a little, and that folks really want to go caving again everywhere, but this seems to be creating a set of rules that can easily be achieved by eager cavers, rather than a set of rules that might actually make a difference to preserving everyone's health. I'm not convinced, personally, for all the reasons discussed on this and other threads.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Starting caving again - when?
« Reply #53 on: May 12, 2020, 02:55:53 pm »
You'd think the French would be able to spell "metres"!    :smartass:

Offline pwhole

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Re: Starting caving again - when?
« Reply #54 on: May 12, 2020, 03:07:22 pm »
Maybe it's Google Translate being culturally insensitive? ;)

Online mikem

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Re: Starting caving again - when?
« Reply #55 on: May 12, 2020, 03:49:27 pm »
No, it's just Google translate being American (which can be much the same thing, but then they've accused us Brits of it often enough). The French version even has an accent!

The rules are obviously trying to keep people out of systems where they are likely to require as many people to get them out.

Offline al

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Re: Starting caving again - when?
« Reply #56 on: May 12, 2020, 04:19:41 pm »
Class 3 caves look to be (roughly) LCMLA level2 - no big pitches etc, and specifically mentions that any "water features" shouldn't present an obstacle to a group.
Old ... but not old enough to know any better

Offline Alex

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Re: Starting caving again - when?
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2020, 04:30:59 pm »
It would be simplest to say stick to grade 3 caves, as they tend to not have anything that difficult in them, with the exception known sand bags like  Knacker Trapper which is more like a grade 4+!
Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Offline Ed

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Re: Starting caving again - when?
« Reply #58 on: May 12, 2020, 04:41:21 pm »
It would be simplest to say stick to grade 3 caves, as they tend to not have anything that difficult in them, with the exception known sand bags like  Knacker Trapper which is more like a grade 4+!

All arbitrary for you now ---- you've got to get past the border check points these day. Don't want you bringing byssinosis and the likes over from the Dark side  :lol:   

Online mikem

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Re: Starting caving again - when?
« Reply #59 on: May 12, 2020, 04:53:55 pm »
Alex, that is what the French actually says, but goes into more detail as to what sections to avoid.

In fact, on my phone, I get the option of viewing the letter in French or English:
https://ffspeleo.fr/reprise-des-activites-150-505.html

& their classification is a bit different:
https://memento.ffspeleo.fr/article319.html

Interestingly, their website includes a PDF of "small confinement games" & a few humourous videos:
https://ffspeleo.fr/petits-jeux-du-confinement-150-498.html
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 05:06:51 pm by mikem »

Offline Alex

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Re: Starting caving again - when?
« Reply #60 on: May 12, 2020, 05:08:11 pm »
Quote
Quote from: Alex on Today at 04:30:59 pm
It would be simplest to say stick to grade 3 caves, as they tend to not have anything that difficult in them, with the exception known sand bags like  Knacker Trapper which is more like a grade 4+!

All arbitrary for you now ---- you've got to get past the border check points these day. Don't want you bringing byssinosis and the likes over from the Dark side  :lol:   

I plan for my first trip back to stay on this side of the border, where it's nice and pleasant.

Also an amendment to my last post, if we get complicated like the french rules seem to be, then it will become impossible to follow just like the new lock down rules!
Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Online mikem

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Re: Starting caving again - when?
« Reply #61 on: May 12, 2020, 10:15:11 pm »
Copied back in after nicked for another thread:
Quote
All arbitrary for you now ---- you've got to get past the border check points these day. Don't want you bringing byssinosis and the likes over from the Dark side  :lol:   

I plan for my first trip back to stay on this side of the border, where it's nice and pleasant.

Also an amendment to my last post, if we get complicated like the french rules seem to be, then it will become impossible to follow just like the new lock down rules!
The rules aren't impossible to follow, they just have a much more regimented system than we do & the government guidelines are aimed at your average city dweller.

Offline Bob Mehew

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Re: Starting caving again - when?
« Reply #62 on: May 14, 2020, 08:57:57 am »
Could someone do a search of other nations across the world to see what they are saying about caving with the virus?  Would you post your results up here or start a new thread.

many thanks in anticipation

 

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