BBC Radio 4 programme on "Long Covid syndrome"

[Mrs Trellis]

Those who think the virus leaves most infected people relatively unscathed should listen to this:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000mzms

[mrodoc]

Much on the same tack many medical professionals dismissed post viral fatigue syndrome as mostly being of psychological origin. I tended to be more pragmatic in my work as a GP for, although I saw individuals who clung to labels like this I was in no doubt that it was a genuine phenomenon. It didn't make it any easier do anything practical for  my patients but at least they had some sympathy. I think some so called psychosomatic illnesses have a physical grounding that just hasn't been discovered yet.  The symptoms of what has been called Long Covid closely resemble the symptoms I was seeing  for many years in people with post viral fatigue syndrome. The fact that there are a lot more sufferers may allow us to define the underlying causative process and manage it.

[Laurie]

Since I suffered from the virus (31st March) I have slowly lost my senses of smell and taste.
My smelling ability has been zero for the last couple of months and I can now only taste sweet and salt.
I do occasinally get 'phantom' smells.
Will they ever come back?

[crickleymal]

I had the virus in March or April and lost my sense of taste (some would say I never had one anyway ) and smell. They have pretty much recovered now though.

[mrodoc]

Can I make a clarification. People frequently complain of losing taste and smell. Most of the taste of our food is related to its smell. Pure taste is conducted by the taste buds on the tongue which can  detect sweet, sour, bitter, salt and umami. There may be others but scientists argue about this. If you can taste bitterness you have not lost your sense of taste. Smell covers everything else and lost of that sense is known as anosmia and often occurs with bad colds or associated viral infections but can be caused by trauma as well. The best demonstration of difference between taste and smell was by my biology teacher more than 60 years who after plugging the nose of one of my classmates (humanely) gave him  apple and potato to chew. He couldn't tell the difference.

[Ian Ball]

Definitely giving the potato apple chew a go tonight!

Peter Marshall Shattered  interesting reading for sure. Not many books on squash.

[Laurie]

Can I make a clarification. People frequently complain of losing taste and smell. Most of the taste of our food is related to its smell. Pure taste is conducted by the taste buds on the tongue which can  detect sweet, sour, bitter, salt and umami. There may be others but scientists argue about this. If you can taste bitterness you have not lost your sense of taste. Smell covers everything else and lost of that sense is known as anosmia and often occurs with bad colds or associated viral infections but can be caused by trauma as well. The best demonstration of difference between taste and smell was by my biology teacher more than 60 years who after plugging the nose of one of my classmates (humanely) gave him  apple and potato to chew. He couldn't tell the difference.

It IS the end of the world when you can't smell fresh ground coffee brewing and the bacon for the sarnie you're not going to taste being fried!!! When a pint of Butcombe tastes the same as a canned supermarket lager. (I'm guessing about the taste of the lager.)

[mrodoc]

Yup anosmia is a bugger. It is one of senses you don't think about until it goes. Our sense of smell does a lot of things. It is potent way stimulus to memory and we all know the scent of 'outside' as you emerge from a cave.

[PeteHall]

Interesting what you say about smell as a stimulus for memory.

For as long as I can remember, I have associated the smell/taste of certain tomato sauces with eating tinned ravioli at my grandparents' neighbours farm. I remember the outside of my grandparents house and the approach to the farm, I remember the farm kitchen clearly. Every time I smell that smell, I see it and I can't eat whatever it is.

Only last year, when describing this memory to my mother (after being served a tomato dip), I found out that my grandparents moved from that house when I was two and I would only have been there a couple of times. I only visited the farm once and that was the day of my father's funeral, a week after my 2nd birthday. I have no other memories from that age, but a certain smell has clearly helped anchor one very significant occasion into my mind.

[mrodoc]

Perhaps we should start a thread 'Cavers' Proustian triggers'

[Mrs Trellis]

The paper shop in Llandudno where I was sent to buy the papers and also bought my bucket, spade, flags etc. I pass the shop now and it no longers smells as I remember but I can still remember it 65 years or so later.

[Mrs Trellis]

It seems to affect worst females over 50 years.  Is this the same for ME and other post viral syndromes?

[mrodoc]

Post viral fatigue affects all ages but I did have several patients who fitted that model. I was talking to a former colleague today who has had PVFS for several years and we both agree Long Covid was the same but now more obvious as a syndrome and not some psychosomatic problem which many professionals felt it was. The good news is that more research will be directed towards its causes and management.

[Laurie]

I was listening to the Jeremy Vine show last week when they were discussing the condition.
A lady who had been diagnosed with it detailed her symptoms which was a perfect description of the way I'm feeling now.
The bit about 'brain fogging' made me suddenly realise why I'd slowed down so much over the lste six months; I'd put it down to just old age. I've slowly lost my sense of smell 'til now I can't smell anything except occasiona imaginary smells and my tasting ability has reduced to just sweet and salt.
I can't smell or taste a bacon sarnie or fresh ground coffee.