Author Topic: Kids caving light  (Read 843 times)

Offline PeteHall

  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1544
Kids caving light
« on: January 24, 2021, 12:05:36 am »
My kids are getting to the age where I can take two underground at the same time, so I'm in the market for another light...

Currently, I'm using a Petzl Myo. It's very light, the battery is on the back so it balances on a helmet and it runs on AA's so easy to charge.

Before I buy another the same, is there anything better on the market? Key criteria are lightweight and battery on the back. Also needs to be cave proof!

I've been looking at some of the Fenix lights, and the HP25R looks pretty decent... any thoughts on this model?

Any other suggestions?

UK Caving

Kids caving light
« on: January 24, 2021, 12:05:36 am »
Warmbac

Online Fjell

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 430
Re: Kids caving light
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2021, 10:50:11 am »
Given we had no problems with a duo at a young age, I wouldn’t overthink it.

I think the step is when they have to climb unaided or without you standing right there. Then the light has to be hard to fall off or be knocked aside. Having a helmet that works properly and won’t slip off was more of an issue. A very very light light helps (like the Tikkina). Kids don’t need very strong lights as their eyesight is so good, and they really shouldn’t have one they can blind someone with, because they never remember. 70-100 lumen is more than enough.

For maximum fun try giving a five year old a carbide.

#BetterDeadThanDuffers

Online cavemanmike

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 674
  • ucet
Re: Kids caving light
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2021, 10:55:41 am »
Sten.
Lightweight and very robust, if you can hold of one

Offline Fulk

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4409
Re: Kids caving light
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2021, 11:36:14 am »
I've used a Fenix HP25R for about 4 years and have found it to be a very good light. I normally use the spot beam, which on 'level 2' gives a good light that lasts about 10 hours on one charge of a 3500-mAh battery, while 'level 3' gives a very good light and lasts about 4 hours.

And here's my geekish side coming out: at 3.6 m the main spotlight of the HP 25R was ~80 cm in diameter (compared with that of the HP 11 I used to use, which was ~48 cm).
« Last Edit: January 24, 2021, 11:50:55 am by Fulk »

Offline rhychydwr1

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3431
  • The Mayor of Cwm Parc
    • http://www.showcaves.com
Re: Kids caving light
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2021, 11:47:25 am »
I have an old Petzl Zoom.  Runs off a 4.5v battery, FREE!, just need the postage.


Offline Leclused

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 569
    • The Avalon Blog
Re: Kids caving light
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2021, 08:44:28 pm »
My kids are getting to the age where I can take two underground at the same time, so I'm in the market for another light...

Currently, I'm using a Petzl Myo. It's very light, the battery is on the back so it balances on a helmet and it runs on AA's so easy to charge.

Before I buy another the same, is there anything better on the market? Key criteria are lightweight and battery on the back. Also needs to be cave proof!

I've been looking at some of the Fenix lights, and the HP25R looks pretty decent... any thoughts on this model?

Any other suggestions?

If lightweight is a must look at stoots https://www.stootsconcept.fr/
Dagobert L'Ecluse (SC Avalon - Belgium)
http://www.scavalon.be
http://scavalon.blogspot.be

Offline Mr Mike

  • addict
  • **
  • Posts: 159
    • The Mine Explorer Society
Re: Kids caving light
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2021, 08:03:42 am »
I had a Fenix HL55 for myself and that was the easiest to let my daughter use as it was to hand. Great head lamp, used underground, night walking, work light etc....

Offline ditzy

  • The ditzy caving
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1290
Re: Kids caving light
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2021, 02:50:06 pm »
I use a Fenix light and i love it, best lamp i have ever had, light as well so ideal for children, has 5 light settings as well including a dim red one for when you are just sitting around.

Offline Brains

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2477
Re: Kids caving light
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2021, 03:01:08 pm »
Think I started with a Petzl Zoom with the old flat pack battery, OK if you werent going caving for long or wanted to see where you were going. Old lead acid bricks from hire shops and club stores were good to the limit of daylight, where they usually failed... Carbide followed and was a revolution in quality and stability, replaced by a homemade NiCd 2xD-cell lamp. FX2 and FX3 came next, upgraded with LEDs when they became available. Currently onto a Fenix bolted to my lid - best light yet!

For kids I would consider a single AA cell Fenix and a pocket full of spares, but beware, they quickly learn to turn them up and then shine them in your eyes while asking questions or just wearing your name out...  :o

Offline PeteHall

  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1544
Re: Kids caving light
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2021, 03:59:48 pm »
Thanks All.

I've taken my chances with a single AA Fenix from Inglesport: https://www.inglesport.com/product/fenix-hm23-headtorch/

It doesn't meet my initial criteria of battery on the back for balance, but it's so light, I don't think that will matter. Time will tell...

Max output is 240 lumen which is more than enough for small kids and it claims 8 hours battery life at this level, which is again, more than enough for a small child (I think the longest trip so far with my 6 year old is 1.5 hours).

This will be the first Fenix light I've used and based on the strength of support for their various lamps on pretty much every lighting related thread on UKC, I'm expecting great things :)

Offline Fulk

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4409
Re: Kids caving light
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2021, 04:17:07 pm »
Quote
Max output is 240 lumen which is more than enough for small kids and it claims 8 hours battery life at this level

That's quite a claim for a single AA battery.

Offline tim.rose2

  • Tim R
  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 407
Re: Kids caving light
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2021, 04:42:51 pm »
Let us know your views when it arrives Pete - Sas was looking at getting one of those for general use (rather than caving). 

Offline Brains

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2477
Re: Kids caving light
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2021, 05:07:18 pm »
Young explorer with a single AA fenix, provides plenty of light and painful to look at!

Offline Ian Ball

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1032
Re: Kids caving light
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2021, 05:12:35 pm »
Must be a decent AA, probably not NiMh?
Glad Inglesport offerings tempted you, I had a look through but they were quite pricey for a rear mounted power pack torch.  I suppose that is a step up in spec.

Enjoy the adventures


Offline PeteHall

  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1544
Re: Kids caving light
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2021, 05:49:27 pm »
Quote
Max output is 240 lumen which is more than enough for small kids and it claims 8 hours battery life at this level

That's quite a claim for a single AA battery.


Quote from: Inglesport
4 lumens (100 hrs), 70 lumens (16 hrs) and 240 lumens (8 hrs) (Please note that output is ANSI tested and will step down from higher brightness as the battery weakens)

I wonder if it is a typo. more than 3 x the output quoted at mid power, but only half the duration. Unless the LED is significantly more efficient at high power (which I doubt) something doesn't add up  :-\

Offline andrewmc

  • BCA ind. rep.
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1006
  • EUSS, BEC, YSS, SWCC...
Re: Kids caving light
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2021, 08:44:50 pm »
Fenix runtimes are total crap. Although they aren't the only manufacturer who does this.

8 hours at 240lm should mean 240lm minimum for 8 hours.

Unfortunately, 'industry standard' means that it means '8 hours on the 240lm setting with reduction in output permitted as long as it stays above some threshold, which can be as low as 10% of the setting'.

That's not to say they aren't good lights, just that their runtimes are entirely reliant on their built-in step-downs in brightness to make for better advertising with misleading figures.

Offline Fulk

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4409
Re: Kids caving light
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2021, 11:27:54 pm »
Fenix claim that the HP25R will give 130 lumens for 12 hours; I found that mine lasts at this level for 10 hours, so not so much of a discrepancy.

However, what appears to be their updated model – the HM65R – has a claimed output of 48 hours at 130 lumens (from the same 18650 battery) . . . so they've suddenly produced a lamp/battery combination that puts out 4 times as much light?

I suspect that in the case of the older lamp, they gave a reasonably accurate figure for the light output based on its lasting for 12 (10) hours at a full 130 lumens, whereas for the new one they've somehow finessed it and are claiming 4 x as much light but at a steadily decreasing output.

Still, I think that the HP25R is a good light.

Maybe we need Roy Fellows to read this thread and comment on it.  :)

Online Fjell

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 430
Re: Kids caving light
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2021, 10:14:28 am »
Manufacturers are coy about decline curves. Some more so than others. The area under the curve approximates to battery capacity. You can’t beat physics.

The Pixa-2 is one of the few commercial lights that has a constant current control until the battery is largely depleted. One reason I like it. So it is 80lm for 6 hours, not 400lm for the first 5 mins.

I also have an older Tikka XP2 and it is actually fully programmable via a computer. You can force it to behave as a constant current light. If you can make the software still work. I think some others do this.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2021, 10:26:00 am by Fjell »

Offline PeteHall

  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1544
Re: Kids caving light
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2021, 12:08:09 pm »
Good service from Inglesport. Lamp arrived today and so far I'm pretty impressed.

It seems very well made and the soft rubber mount means that it doesn't slide around at all on the helmet. The push button seems big enough to operate with gloves on and it is so light that it shouldn't affect helmet stability.

Light output on all settings drops to pretty much minimum within an hour, though to the casual glance, the log scale masks quite how significant and quick the drop-off is...

We'll have to see how usable it is after an hour or so...

Offline Ian Ball

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1032
Re: Kids caving light
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2021, 03:43:16 pm »
Whilst I'm not  fan on primary cells, it look slike a litihium one could be useful

review of Energizer lithium

Offline Mr Mike

  • addict
  • **
  • Posts: 159
    • The Mine Explorer Society
Re: Kids caving light
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2021, 03:57:17 pm »
Was going to mention Li primary AA cells, but got beaten to it. Some of the equipment I make runs on industrial Duracell AA cells, but for cold Arctic countries, I recommend Li due to their low temp operation and high current output that are needed at -20oC or more. Performance side by side is completely different, Li wins pants down as it can deliver sustained relative high current.

See datasheet: https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj5wvS_-rnuAhVMY8AKHcpuBugQFjAAegQIAhAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdata.energizer.com%2Fpdfs%2Fl91.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1P0PLbOMhxLIOA_HQa1qdA

A good source of discounted branded batteries is: https://www.buyabattery.co.uk/


 

Main Menu

Forum Home Help Search
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal