Author Topic: Hollandtwine Mine...  (Read 5651 times)

Offline Rob

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Hollandtwine Mine...
« on: January 15, 2007, 05:27:11 pm »
For those that don't know, Hollandtwine is a lost mine shaft up on Dirtlow rake that was explored up until the 1970's, at which point the surface was dug up by the workings up there and then re-landscaped to the state that it is in today, without the shaft being capped. Before it was "lost" the main shaft reached to a depth of 365ft and then workings off that led down to 420ft. Quite a bit of natural was found including some chambers and a stream way with a number of pitches. However, according to old mine records a "Great Swallow" was reached at a depth of 600ft, water that almost certainly is connected somehow to Lake Passage in Peak Cavern (Doom's Retreat is about 750 metres North East of the entrance shaft!).

Over the last year a great deal of research has been done towards relocating this shaft, including the purchasing of old maps and aerial photos to pinpoint its position to within a metre.

Collaboration with the Peak Park, English Nature, the land owner, and the Dirtlow quarry manager has recently all come together to give permission for a short term excavation of the site with the hope of finding the shaft (estimated by different sources to be between 15 - 50 foot down). Fortunately for us, that whole area of Dirtlow Rake is undergoing a huge landscaping project at the moment meaning a whole load of large dumpers and 360 diggers are up there. An agreement with the site manager has been made allowing us to borrow a 360 and driver for a few hours to dig our hole, at a small price. This is hopefully going ahead on next Saturday (Jan 20th).

However, after the land owner has already had a 6 year long dig operating on his land (Titan), he does not want a long term scar in the middle of another one of his fields. This leaves us with a few options, depending upon what we find on Saturday.

1. We find nothing interesting at all, just a 20ft deep hole with not even a draught at the bottom.
   - Outcome = fill the hole back in while we have a digger present and gracefully walk away with "at least we tried" attitude.

2. We find a great big shaft, hopefully don't loose the digger down it, and every one is happy.
   - Outcome = immediate fencing to be erected around the site and lid capping materials to be sourced. Spoil back filled around a central shaft

3. We find something inconclusive, maybe a ginged shaft or a big draught from the centre of our hole.
   - Outcome = a difficult decision to be made, probably by those involved in the project present at the time. May involve some of point 2, leaving a 20ft shaft down to the dig face where it can be continued by interested parties.

Unfortunately point 1 is probably the most likely. However, if something is found that is worth keeping, some work will need to be done that day with the main objective of making it safe. Then over the next few weeks the shaft will need to be built and the spoil back filled to level of the surrounding area.

So, who’s up for some fettling?

It would be great to have some preliminary names down for this Sunday. In the event that work is needed to be done I can let you know on the Saturday evening. From then on most days will be a good day for help.

We will also be very interested in getting all the materials (fence posts, wire, wood, boards, concrete, etc) on the cheap, some for saturday, some for later on. Any offers?
The end is where we start....

Offline Greg L

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2007, 10:42:45 pm »
Rob,

I'm up for some fettling, so put me down preliminarily for Sunday. I may be busy down an 'ole elsewhere but if not I will come and find the lost shaft of Hollandtwine.

Drainrat.
--The caver formerly known as Drainrat--

Offline SamT

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2007, 01:44:27 am »
Eyup rob.
Gonna be away Im afraid - otherwise - I'd be up for it.

I know Dan Hibberts of the Eldon is well up for it (He was up there this weekend looking as he thought it was happening then, and you could try Jim Lister too.

I have a roll of barb wire at bagshawe - and a bit of sheep netting too if you want it.

Couldn't you get one of those dumpers across to the field to remove the titan spoil. Seems like too good an oportunity to miss.

Offline Rob

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2007, 11:54:43 am »
Cheers for the barb wire offer, have PM'd you...

Good idea with the dumpers but a lot of the heap was moved before xmas so it's not that bad. Also last week it seems like there has been quite a big collapse within the choke and the spol heap has dropped considerably. Which is good but discerning!
The end is where we start....

Offline paul

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2007, 12:25:42 pm »
Sounds good - I hope you get lucky and find the hole!
I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are missing!

Offline SamT

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2007, 02:58:47 am »
Hi rob,

Make sure you record everything that you did. GPS, photos etc.

Even if you dont find it, Some young cavers may have the chance to search again in the future, and any clues/hints/evidence they can glean will be of assitance to them.

Guess things like the Eldon or TSG journals are the best repositorys for such info, as well as things like the UKcaving Wiki.

Good luck for saturday. I'll still be recovering from my nightshift  :sleeping:

Offline Rob

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2007, 09:02:56 pm »
Just heard that Andy, the quarry site manager, cannot spare a digger and driver for a couple weekends still, so we will postpone the digging for now.  Will keep you all posted...
The end is where we start....

Offline Dickie

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2007, 02:26:14 pm »
I went down there with T pot in the 70's, when he was still connected with the Pegasus. They did a lot of the work there, so some of their more "mature" members might be able to give some clues.
Amazin Razin rools OK!

Online Mark

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2007, 02:20:56 pm »
Theres a lot of snow on the ground up there at the moment, just wondering if its worth having a look for any blowholes, (climbing shafts or owt)

Online Mark

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2007, 04:15:42 pm »
Tried to get up there today to look for blow holes, but the snow was too deep for the escort van (wishes land rover hadnt been nicked) there is lots of snow cover it would be worthwile trying to get up and have a look

T pot 1

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2007, 04:28:35 pm »
Just got back from Mexico DF where i have been trying find out if it is at all possible to take an expedition back to Cuetzalan
Give me  a few days and i will supply a grid referance to the top dead centre of the Hollantwine shaft, this grid will come off an autocad ground survey, don't ask where this comes from
I also know where the climbing shaft is located, this may be a better option because it is not in the big pit area

T pot

Offline Rob

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2007, 04:45:53 pm »
Cool, will be good to see if yours and our grid references are the same. Lets hope so or we may create a little problem!

Yer, i heard from Henry that you knew where the climbing shafts surfaced. This would be extremely interesting. I have found no reference to them above the 150ft level. This would indeed be worth investigating some snowy day me thinks!
The end is where we start....

T pot 1

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2007, 04:58:07 pm »
I don't think you will find any blow holes, the shaft when plugged had small waste tipped down first, this settled on the platform at 150ft and then a huge boulder was forced into the top of the shaft by a 360 degree excavator so sealing it completly.
This was to stop any cavers maintaining any access at the time by the then operator of the site whom i knew very well

T pot

BenM

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2007, 04:42:29 pm »
Just wondering how this went guys... did you give it a shot in the end? Any luck?

tamesider

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2007, 11:08:37 pm »
Ford & Rieuwerts, "Lead mining in the Peak District" 1968  provide a small diagram of the surface arrangements and a grid reference 140.813. The horse gin is most likely to show up in aerial photos and the winding shaft was about 6-8 feet from its entrance on the SE side, adjacent to the wall of a coe, but outside the coe. No surrounding landmarks were shown on the plan

Not been there for years so haven't seen its present state. Aerial photos likely to be the only way forward if the horse gin, coe and the crushing floor, 40 feet to the SE of the shaft have gone. However the mine is stated to be 300 yards to the north-east of Hazard mine, 136.812 which may be helpful -if that is still there!  Best wishes

Offline SamT

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2007, 10:48:41 am »

Lost for ever it would seem

 - see

http://w01-0504.web.dircon.net/pdc/cave0703.htm#hollandtwine

unless a way can be found in from Hazard

Offline traff

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2007, 10:00:10 pm »
I'm glad tamesider brought this up as thought about this a while ago.

I don't know that area well, however i've read that Hazard is still there.

Quote "The shaft is in a good state of preservation and covered by an iron grill for safety reasons. It is in excess of 360 feet deep and is a perfect example of this type of shaft."

Also in Ford and Rieuwerts book it states "It was connected at times with Hollandtwine Mine"



Offline SamT

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2007, 09:28:38 am »

yes - that is well known - however the route is not  :'(

Offline Rob

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2007, 12:10:56 pm »
And it's only about 80m deep now  :-\
The end is where we start....

Offline Mrs Trellis

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2007, 03:40:46 pm »
Have any dye tests proved positive to Doom's?

It strikes me that even if access to the known (in the '70's) parts of Hollandtwine then that doesn't mean that access to the "Great Swallow" is possible (if it exists) and that 750m is quite a long way away for a vadose connection in that area.
Mrs Trellis
Upper Sheeps Bottom
North Wales

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2007, 06:32:28 pm »
The classic dye test from Hollandtwine Mine to Peak Cavern is decribed in:

Kitchen G, 1972, "Dye Testing - Hollandtwine Mine - Ink Sump". BSA Bulletin (New Series) 6, p12.

This was done before Ink Sump was passed to discover Doom's Retreat.  Unfortunately Hollandtwine Mine was lost before Doom's Retreat was discovered, so we can be confident that no dye test from within Hollandtwine Mine to Doom's Retreat has ever been done.

John Gunn has since done various traces from parts of Dirtlow Rake which have also emerged from Ink Sump but to my knowledge there were never detectors placed in Doom's Retreat beyond Ink Sump.  So the water emerging in Doom's Retreat has never been successfully dye traced from anywhere - although it is extremely likely it comes from Dirtlow Rake.

Hope this helps . . . .

Offline SamT

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2007, 11:14:39 pm »
Pitlamp - I've heard tell of the fact that the same dye traces from the same regions of Dirtlow have also shown up in Bagshawe. I personally find this hard to get my head round. Not impossible - just improbable. I assume they were part of either Kitchens or Gunns work. Can you confirm this. (Ive been meaning to get hold of John Gunns work on the area for ages - but dont really know how to go about it - bar emailing - which I haven't gotten round to doing yet).


Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Hollandtwine Mine...
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2007, 07:13:23 am »
Hello Sam - I don't think the BSA (Garry Kitchen) tests ever showed up in Bagshawe but I seem to remember John Gunn ending a talk he gave many years ago with a speculative comment about inconclusive results suggesting some dye may have turned up at Bradwell.  No doubt he followed this up with further work to confirm or otherwise . . . . . .

The trouble is there are plenty of reasons for detectors being "positive" other than a successful dye trace.  It's probably worth speaking to JG directly.  Not all of the dye tracing he has done over the years has been published (within caving circles at least).

 

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