Author Topic: Giants Hole  (Read 7019 times)

Offline Mark

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1210
  • Eldon Pothole Club
Giants Hole
« on: May 02, 2004, 06:55:50 pm »
If you are thinking of having a trip down Giants Hole can you please make sure that all members of your group know what a hole looks like and what to do when you get there.
Today was the 3rd rescue from the bottom of garlands pot in as many months.

Some members of a well known bolting group were considering installing bolts to make future rescues easier, is this taking things a bit too far :?:

Offline bubba

  • Administrator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2736
Giants Hole
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2004, 07:57:24 pm »
What happened? Did somebody fall the length of Garlands?

It's not a hard pot to miss unless you're running or something, and it's hardly a precarious pitch-head...
=:blubba:=

[ nsfw ]

Offline Mark

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1210
  • Eldon Pothole Club
Giants Hole
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2004, 08:11:35 pm »
Apparently one minute the guy was at the top of Garlands about to descend, next minute he was on the deck, he landed on his feet and suffered some injury to his lower back, brought out in a stretcher and air lifted to sheffield,
Credit to DCRO, another fairly polished rescue even though a lot of members were away.

Offline bubba

  • Administrator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2736
Giants Hole
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2004, 08:16:56 pm »
Lucky he didn't bust lots of bones - I guess that the problem is that a lot of novices go into Giants. Maybe a sign saying "pitch ahead" or something is the way to go, much as I hate signs in caves...?
=:blubba:=

[ nsfw ]

GSR

  • Guest
Giants Hole
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2004, 01:59:19 pm »
how about flood lighting the whole system, installing an escalator at garlands, padding the ceiling, sanding off any sharp rocks and, of course, carrying out some extensive widening works in the crabwalk, wouldn't want anyone to get stuck now would we.
 :roll:
however, if extra work is being considered to ease the, all too frequent, rescues, it does sound like some kind of measure should be taken to try to discourage the accidents from happening in the first place. surely if that means putting a sign up then that should be what happens.

Offline SamT

  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6225
    • The Eldon Pothole Club
Giants Hole
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2004, 07:09:40 pm »
Jesus - not again.

there should be a sign at the bottom -

"Danger - risk of falling numpties"

Offline al

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 436
Giants Hole
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2004, 08:57:07 pm »
Quote from: "SamT"
Jesus - not again.

there should be a sign at the bottom -

"Danger - risk of falling numpties"


I think this site needs serious moderating. Anyone can make mistakes, Sam. Even you.
Old ... but not old enough to know any better

Offline SamT

  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6225
    • The Eldon Pothole Club
Giants Hole
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2004, 08:53:47 am »
Al -

my comment was posted in jest - I dont seriously think we should have a sign...blah blah.

I take your point about accidents - pride before falls etc - in fact I nearly crocked myself in maskill a couple of weeks ago, silly mistake and a slip that could have had dire consequences. In that event - I would have classed myself clearly in the 'numptie' group and would not have taken offence if anyone had called me so (and there would be a long queue - let me tell you).

As for moderation - I dont think anything needs editing/deleting, you have demonstrated the way a forum is self moderating - by coming on and replying to my post with your view as DCRO.

come on, tell us how it was - so we can learn -

 "experienced caver has momentry lapse in concentration trips and ends up at the bottom of pitch  - can happen to anyone"

was that the case.

Offline SamT

  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6225
    • The Eldon Pothole Club
Giants Hole
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2004, 09:16:39 am »
Hey - just thought  :idea:  - you know those big pads that boulderer/climbers use.  :) :

Offline SamT

  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6225
    • The Eldon Pothole Club
Re: Giants Hole
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2004, 10:29:51 am »
Quote from: "Mark"


Some members of a well known bolting group were considering installing bolts to make future rescues easier, is this taking things a bit too far :?:


I dont know, it sounds like the 3 previous rescues were executed ok - therefore is there an actual need for more bolts - or are people getting trigger happy with the bolting gun.

Offline al

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 436
Giants Hole
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2004, 10:41:14 am »
In response to Sam's earlier request, I may be a member of DCRO, but I wasn't on that particular shout, and my comments are my own.

I personally believe that the DCRO should restrict its comments on the rescues it undertakes to its own website, and that it should always remain non-judgemental.

I also believe that the idea of caver rescuing caver is an important underlying principle which works, and we should all, as cavers, be careful how we deal with those unfortunate enough to be on the receiving end of a rescue. (I fully agree with Iain Barker's recent response to The Metro regarding the Mexico business.)

Lastly, I am concerned that all cavers who use forums like this realise who the audience is. It's not just cavers, and it will include, for example, police, press and insurance providers. This is no casual chat in a pub.
Old ... but not old enough to know any better

Offline bubba

  • Administrator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2736
Giants Hole
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2004, 11:04:20 am »
Quote from: "al"
Lastly, I am concerned that all cavers who use forums like this realise who the audience is. It's not just cavers, and it will include, for example, police, press and insurance providers. This is no casual chat in a pub.


I disagree - I think that it pretty much is a casual chat in the pub. It's a place for people with similar interests to natter on about their sport and exchange information, nothing more.

ukCaving.com makes no pretence of representing uk cavers or their interests. Nor is this site affiliated with any particular group / club / etc.

Yes, the press know of it's existence as was demonstrated by the recent Mexican business, but I find it unlikely that the police and insurance companies are watching every post in order to monitor the activities of the caving community.  As for the comment regarding moderation above - people are allowed to express their opinions on this board. If it was something truly libelous, illegal or massively offensive then it would be moderated, but as far as I'm concerned, that was just a throwaway comment.
=:blubba:=

[ nsfw ]

Offline SamT

  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6225
    • The Eldon Pothole Club
Giants Hole
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2004, 11:21:13 am »
I agree whole heartedly with your sentiments. However the DCRO website isnt updated very regularly is it. every six months?

People are always going to gossip and chat on sites like this - moderators are present and can be contacted privately if the nature of posts is incorrect/salacious/libelous and measures can be taken.

People always want to know what happened during accidents so they can learn from them and avoid making the same mistakes themselves. They serve as a remider to us all.

If DCRO are worried about whats said on this site then maybe they need a voice on here. There are already plenty of members of UKC that are DCRO so Im sure there will always be someone available to comment and correct any false information.

Your right - the press do look at this site - if you had followed the mexico incident, it was UKC that kept the whole thing real, told it how it was, from the horses mouth. The BBC were infact wainting to hear from us before publishing anything on their site. (in the early stages before thier man was on the scene)

I doubt insurance companies could actually legally calculate anything based on comments from  this site. Its more likely that they would take statistics from the DCRO site.

Offline bubba

  • Administrator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2736
Giants Hole
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2004, 11:30:32 am »
In fact, I have altered a post on here in the past due to the request of a DCRO member (albeit in a non-official capacity).

I'm sure I speak for all of us on here when I say that we are all extremely supportive of the actions of DCRO, and for that matter, any rescue organisation, and I don't think there's ever been a posting that's been critical of their actions.

I appreciate the need for the rescue organisations to remain non-critical of their rescuees (if that's such a word), and I also appreciate that it's important that the people on this board don't lay into those who get rescued as this may cause people to think twice about calling a rescue.

Things often get taken out of context on forums, and Sam's comment was a joke - I'm sure he doesn't really think the poor person is a numptee for falling down Garlands - it only takes one little slip after all....
=:blubba:=

[ nsfw ]

Offline Mark

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1210
  • Eldon Pothole Club
Giants Hole
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2004, 08:58:51 pm »
al wrote
Quote
I may be a member of DCRO, but I wasn't on that particular shout, and my comments are my own. 'etc


I am also a member of DCRO, I was on that shout and the previous 2 before that,  and my comments are also my own,

I also believe that the DCRO should restrict its comments on the rescues it undertakes to its own website, and that it should always remain non-judgemental.

I am however not a spokesman for the DCRO, I am an individual with my own views and opinions.

If there was a decent pub in the Peak District where cavers regurlarly got together for a casual chat ( I dont mean the pubs where individual groups drink) then it would save all the time trying to work out how to post things on this forum.

ps: how about putting a net across the entrance to crab  walk and filling Garlands with brightly coloured plastic balls

Offline paul

  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4330
  • Orpheus CC, NPC
    • Orpheus Caving Club
Giants Hole
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2004, 07:49:41 am »
Quote from: "Mark"
If there was a decent pub in the Peak District where cavers regurlarly got together for a casual chat ( I dont mean the pubs where individual groups drink) then it would save all the time trying to work out how to post things on this forum.


That's OK for those who live in the area - what about those who cave regularly in the Peak or are interested in caving in the Peak and live elsewhere? Information posted here may even be of interest to those not even living in the UK...

I think there's room for both face-to-face get togethers of cavers with information being exchanged that way, but also there's a need for a way of spreading information to a wider audience.

For a start, how many would have heard of the recent shouts at Giants and elsewhere if it wasn't for this forum? I, too, am a DCRO member and although I was called, I was in South Wales down OFD at the time - I only heard what happened on this forum!
I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are missing!

Offline Brendan

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 436
    • http://www.shef.ac.uk/~suss
Giants Hole
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2004, 01:12:36 pm »
I don't think there is anything unreasonable about putting some information about shouts on the forum. I am also a DCRO member, but I hadn't heard about the incident on Sunday, and was underground when the previous 2 occured. If there have been 3 incidents in the same place over the last few months then I think it is sensible to make people aware of this - as much as anything to remind everyone to be careful, that mistakes can happen, and just because a cave is 'easy' and popular that you can still injure yourself.

That said, I think it may be a bit harsh to slate people who have accidents as I know I have done some pretty stupid/dangerous/both things, but I was lucky. I can't imagine I am the only one either. Everyone has bad days, and everyone makes mistakes, it's just sometimes they occur in worse places. However, there are some incidents that could and should be avoided - e.g. the incident down Titan.
The original underground extreme ironer

Offline SamT

  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6225
    • The Eldon Pothole Club
Giants Hole
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2004, 01:33:33 pm »
Good to hear some balanced thought out opinions. I apologise for my earlier comment. I certainly didnt intend to offend anyone or slate anyone for having an accident. Echoing  brendan - so far I have been lucky. Plus, when its my turn to get rescued - I dont want you lot turning up and saying told you so.

When is the DCRO duck race by the way - I have my ticket.

Offline paul

  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4330
  • Orpheus CC, NPC
    • Orpheus Caving Club
Giants Hole
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2004, 05:27:10 pm »
Quote from: "SamT"
When is the DCRO duck race by the way - I have my ticket.


June 26th
I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are missing!

cave shrimp

  • Guest
DCRO duck race
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2004, 09:57:51 pm »
errr wot exactly is the DCRO duck race  :oops:

Offline paul

  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4330
  • Orpheus CC, NPC
    • Orpheus Caving Club
Re: DCRO duck race
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2004, 07:39:35 am »
Quote from: "cave shrimp"
errr wot exactly is the DCRO duck race  :oops:


Numbered plastic ducks are release into the river - first few across the finishing line win. The person(s) holding the tickets corresponding to the number on the winning ducks get the prizes.

 http://www.hnh.dircon.co.uk/event.htm


I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are missing!

Offline bubba

  • Administrator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2736
Giants Hole
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2004, 07:44:17 am »
The rock 'n roll lifestyle of hard cavers eh?  :wink:  :D
=:blubba:=

[ nsfw ]

Offline SamT

  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6225
    • The Eldon Pothole Club
Giants Hole
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2004, 08:34:54 am »
:lol:

Offline Iain Barker

  • player
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Giants' Hole
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2004, 06:49:28 pm »
If anyone thinks it appropriate, acting in my capacity as DCA Access Officer I'll have a word with Steve Baldacci (landowner) and see about putting up a warning board at the payment kiosk at Giants. I think Giants' is being used by non-organised novice groups with no experienced leader a little too often, and that is contributing to the spate of call-outs.

Mark's comment about filling Garlands with coloured balls is interesting but I think the Eldon would just get drunk and throw themselves in for a giggle - I know I would!

Does everyone realise by-the-way, that Garlands is getting progressively deeper as all the old blasting debris which was chucked down it in the sixties is getting washed down the Crabwalk!
Caves are where you find 'em!

Offline Mark

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1210
  • Eldon Pothole Club
Giants Hole
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2004, 07:26:33 pm »
Why not put a net at the start of crab walk and hold the duck race in the giants stream, forget the brightly coloured balls the person holding the duck with the lowest number could be rescued first.