Just got these neat pictures through of the new Viper light which has been under development in recent months; I've been testbedding one and am happy to report that I've "seen the light" and am a total convert to the joys of setting fire to what's around me while underground - to quote Jeremy Clarkson "Power!" is king! In this case it's more a case of "King Powerful", too!

It's amazing, actually, to visit caves which you are exceptionally familiar with but then to switch on a powerful light and find that the whole place is entirely different `cos you can see LOADS more. OK, so I used to pooh-pooh the boys-with-their-toys brigade but not any longer; they were right all along and I was just jealous. Rightly so.







It's got all the usual you expect from the modern genre of machined quality merchandise but the main stuff people will be interested in is - how long does it last and how bright is it?

Er,... I'll just fish out the instructions:

Ok, brace yourself - there's four settings - ultra low (camp) for sitting around with your chums while trying not to blind them, that's around 80 lumens (about the same as the new Petzl MYO).

Then, to start to check out your caving surroundings you'll put it onto Low; that's a corking 215 lumens (i.e. brighter than a StenLight) and it will run at this setting for over 12 hours.

Just to show off, it can go a lot brighter (and still last for five and a half hours) and chucks out a dazzling 385 lumens (comparable with the Scurion P4 on full ~400 lumens)...

But for those who insist on wearing sunglasses while caving, you'll be needing the full monty setting which is a stella 825 lumens! - be careful not to turn the cave into magma*, though!

(* Exaggeration, but only just!).

It's got a neat "fuel gauge", too, which tells you the battery level status - green for full, yellow for over half full, orange for under half full, red for low and flashing red for "Doh! - needs charging pronto!"); it also has a blue reminder light so you don't inadvertently leave it connected while it's being stowed.

It's nice and light (pun intended) and has a smart recharger which tops it up in under 2 hours from flat, IIRC.

It's A1 for sumping too.

Cost? - ?379.95 - the same price as a Scurion P4 but kicking out more power than the top of the range Scurion P7 (which retails for an additional ?65 but is 125 lumens less powerful!).

I'm not parting with mine but the good news is they're now in stock, at:

Warmbac
http://www.warmbac.com/

Inglesport
http://www.inglesport.com/

Starless River
http://www.starlessriver.com/shop/

Custom Idea
http://www.customidea.com/shop/index.php

So, for a fabulous piece of kit with the best power-to-pound ratio, this is the dogs'.

If Victor Kiam was around I can guess what he'd say!

A question:

Is it possible to run the cable through the inside of your helmet (by drilling holes in front and rear)? In other words, does the cable detach from either the battery or headpiece or is it permanently fixed?

Looking at the pics, it would appear that it is not possible to do so. Hence more chance of snagging and breakage?

The cable has industrial quality sealed gold plated connectors which are twist/pull lock (nice and secure) - this connects the lamp unit to the battery unit with the cable running inside the helmet (lipping under the rim) and the connector sits snugly inside the cradle - it's a low profile/small fixing, taking up hardly any room; the battery end plugs into the charger and, when complete, you simply reconnect it to the lamp unit.

If you drilled a hole large enough (same diameter as a AAA battery) then you could indeed run the cable, with the connector, straight into the side of your helmet, if you wished to do so; a grommet or somesuch would suffice to aid the snug fitting of the lead.

I got me Scurion P4 before the + ?350 price hike but now they are a comparable cost are they of comparable quality? The Scurion is bomb-proof IMO, have they been compared underground yet? I'm all for something British, lets hope it's up to standard.

Yep, a handful of Vipers (!) have been tested out in various locations for quite some time, now, notching up some good expedition time plus domestic use - other testbedders will no doubt add their tuppennyha'penny to this thread in due course; the testbedding was specifically done to iron out any glitches which became apparent and to modify the settings for more usability.

Being a UK product it is not subject to the vagaries of Euro/Sterling exchange rates so you know for sure what it's going to cost.

looks like another over priced soft top tank of a light to me (says the caver who didnt get given a free one...)
i dont understand why so many people are making such extortionatly priced lamps any muppit could put together a lamp for ?300+ whens somone going to make a bright robust afordable lamp.

rant aside what sort of batterys is it using can you run it on AAs or flat packs for exped use etc? 

Looks nice. Powerful and small. However i'm not going to get even nearly excited until i've seen some proper specs. Any links anyone?

As for whether its any good or not, we won't really know until a year or two. Let's not go making any extravagent comments now, it's good if it lasts. And not just one expedition, more like ten expeditions, 100 digging trips, 100 sport trips, and 50 pub trips! Only then may they be in with a chance of selling lots...

And why don't they make the Ultra Low setting actually Ultra Low? 80 Lumens is way too bright to sit about camp reading a book, cos as soon as you stand up you'll be blind for a minute or two. 10 lumens would make much more sense... 

1) It meets my definition of affordable. What's yours? (i.e. mention a figure) [Who got a free one? - indeed, that would be affordable by anyone!].

2) Lithium Ion. If you tried running an 825lm lamp on AAs or flatpacks it definitely wouldn't be affordable!

2) Lithium Ion. If you tried running an 825lm lamp on AAs or flatpacks it definitely wouldn't be affordable!
makes it completly useless then for any big trips....

You do trips which last more than 48hrs. Blimey!

Consider my hat suitably doffed.

ian.p said:

i dont understand why so many people are making such extortionatly priced lamps any muppit could put together a lamp for ?300+ whens somone going to make a bright robust afordable lamp.

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A good question.

You do trips which last more than 48hrs. Blimey!

Consider my hat suitably doffed.

yes when camping underground i certainly do but more to the point you quote the low setting as runing for a mear 12 houres to run for longer than this presumably you have to run it in very low mode geting as much light as a myo XP which to my mind makes it less workably bright thatn a duo for long trips as a duo you can run on bright and just stick some extra batterys in when the juice runs out.

cap 'n chris said:

OK, so I used to pooh-pooh the boys-with-their-toys brigade but not any longer; they were right all along and I was just jealous. Rightly so.

Click to expand...

When you are an old git like me, and several others who hang around here, you might make comment on your inability to adjust your eyes to sudden bright light when dazzled by a 'boy with his toy'. It can be a right pain in the eyeball to meet another caver who sports something like one of these damn things. If you have one, please reserve use of its awesome bright setting for when nobody else is going to get temporarily blinded by it.

I guess it's largely about perception and relative prices. e.g.

An el-cheapo boiler suit from the local hardware store will set you back about a tenner and for a robust and reliable/powerful LED lamp you'd be looking at around ?30-?50 depending on brand/spec.

So, a half-decent lamp in this scenario is 3-5 times as much as the overalls.

Now compare the price of a Viper with an AV suit and what's the relative cost multiplier?

I make it 3-4.

So, depending on the quality of the kit, the price of a lamp versus the cost of an oversuit is the same.

cap 'n chris said:

1) It meets my definition of affordable. What's yours? (i.e. mention a figure) [Who got a free one? - indeed, that would be affordable by anyone!].

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?100ish

Yes, Peter; it is an acknowledged courtesy with powerful lights that the owner will switch them to a low(er) setting when in the presence of other cavers - to avoid precisely the problem you mention: the high settings come into their own when prospecting vertical obstacles (either rigging from above and seeking a good location for rebelaying etc., or to view up avens/across chambers etc.), filming and photography, or just to behold the scale of some passage(s).

Ian, you can purchase additional Lithium Ion batteries for the Viper; but I'm kinda guessing you're not in the market for one, in the same way I'm not in the market for a Veyron.

ttxela said:

cap 'n chris said:

1) It meets my definition of affordable. What's yours? (i.e. mention a figure) [Who got a free one? - indeed, that would be affordable by anyone!].

Click to expand...

?100ish

Click to expand...

Most likely looking for an imported product from China; this is probably easily do-able but someone would have to take a deep breath and order a pallet of lights. Anything manufactured by hand in Europe is unlikely to retail at the ?100 mark simply because the fixed costs of business and living, combined with economy of scale, make it unfeasible.

well not realy its more like the diferance between buying an astra estate or a porsch one is eminantly more practical than the other and vastly cheaper however the owner of the porsch feels like hes got the better car....untill he has to do anything other than show of with it or go realy fast for not very long burning a huge amount of fuel with little chance of reaching the next petrol station.

Which would you rather drive? (Money aside). Be honest.

Its actually a question about why is it necessary to spend money in absolute amounts, not multipliers. I don't get paid in multipliers (or spanners) so the less I actually have to spend to get good kit, the better, and if its really necessary to spend lots then one spends it (if you have it). I'd rather someone came up with affordable good quality rather than something that might just be priced at a level that someone has judged "the market can afford". (this argument doesn't apply to the rather excellent books about underground sites in East Surrey..... )

But then maybe the profit margin on the viper is actually very modest. Who am I to judge....