Author Topic: Memorials - research enquiry.  (Read 7492 times)

Offline yrammy

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Memorials - research enquiry.
« on: September 05, 2018, 03:03:05 pm »
We have an enquiry from a lady at the Royal Academy, asking for information regarding a project on memorials and any made for cavers in particilar. We are looking for documents, photos or anything relevant. We have information regarding Mossdale and Neil Moss  but wonder if any cavers out there know of other memorials of this nature.

If you can help please let me know
Mary   


Offline SamT

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2018, 03:18:59 pm »
There is a plaque in Damocles Rift in Eldon Hole for George Cooper.

Offline SamT

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2018, 03:19:56 pm »
There is also a plaque for Tony Revell by the entrance to the Coe at Bagshawe Cavern.

Offline Martin Laverty

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2018, 04:01:01 pm »
There's one to archaeologist Ned Cunnington in Ogof Wyntog, Gower, as described and illustrated at https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=11040.0

Offline Speleotron

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2018, 04:05:39 pm »
There's one by the entrance to Bull Pot of the Witches and a few by the entrance to the Berger.
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Offline MJenkinson

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2018, 04:13:02 pm »
There's one in Fall Pot I think.

Offline JohnMCooper

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2018, 05:03:01 pm »
I think there was one to Bob Drake in Chamber 4 in Wookey Hole.

Offline Alex

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2018, 05:11:54 pm »
UK only? This is one for a brit abroad. This one is in Matienzo (Spain) for Renada



Which has been re-furbished at some point as this is what it looks like recently

Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Offline Badlad

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2018, 06:03:48 pm »
Years ago there was a memorial plaque to a caver at the top of the big pitch in Black Shiver.  The guy hadn't died there, car accident I think, but it was his favourite cave.  I remember ripping my oversuit on the corner of the plaque but I seem to remember it was not there on my last visit.

Boxhead Pot was named in memory of Alan 'boxhead' Box (who also died in Matienzo).  No plaque necessary.

Offline droid

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2018, 06:13:52 pm »
The Black Shiver one was put in by A friend of mine, Eric Mann. It was to a friend of his. As you rightly say he didn't die in the cave. I put in one of the bolts, along with another friend of Eric's.
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Offline cavemanmike

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2018, 06:41:59 pm »
Although not a cave (but he was a cavers) there is one in crtt for Scotty as it was his favourite place

Offline Ian Ball

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2018, 06:45:36 pm »
I don't have photographs I can share without permission, but there are memorials at Bull Pot, Kingsdale for my friend Gordon Aitken, near Roaring Hole for Colin Pryer and then the Mossdale tragedy memorial plaque.

Offline Rob

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2018, 09:13:05 pm »
There is a plaque for Stephen Nunwick at the entrance of Oxlow Caverns. Sorry, no photos....

As an aside, this might be a useful resource:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UK_caving_fatalities
The end is where we start....

Offline Bob Mehew

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2018, 09:24:51 pm »
St Cuthberts Swallett on Mendip has one in the Dinning Room (or Cerberus Hall acording to MU) commemorating the work of Don Coase, Roy Bennett & Dave Irwin.

As I recall, there was an argument put forward on cave conservation grounds that placing such plaques was tantamount to graffiti so the placement of plaques was frowned on.

Offline Badlad

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2018, 09:27:23 pm »
There is a plaque for Stephen Nunwick at the entrance of Oxlow Caverns. Sorry, no photos....

As an aside, this might be a useful resource:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UK_caving_fatalities

Interesting that there were 5 fatalities in the last ten years 2008-2017 but for similar period 1988-1997 there were 27 fatalities.  Hopefully that shows we are a lot safer these days.

Offline paull

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2018, 11:50:34 pm »
Bull pot , kingsdale
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Offline Simon Beck

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2018, 12:15:14 am »
Isn't there one in Heartburn Crawl, Dalehead Pot?

I've been hesitant to bring this up, but now the subject's been raised I may as well mention it here.

I'm not sure when the 'other plaque' at Mossdale was placed, four years maybe more, but it's certainly caused a few of us, regular visitors, to raise our eyebrows. I have no wish to upset those who placed it, but I have struggled to see the relevance in why it was placed to begin with. Things would quickly become ridiculous if we placed a plaque to every caver who'd discovered something in a cave, but not actually died there.

On a contradictory note, if the plaque was to Bob Leakey, I wouldn't hesitate to welcome it, but what he did there was exceptional in comparison, and should be celebrated by everyone who passes by.

I've no wish to start an ethical pissing match, but more get this out there and see what others think.     
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 12:37:05 am by Simon Beck »

Offline Graigwen

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2018, 12:58:31 am »
There used to be a memorial bench to Paul Esser at Porth yr Ogof.

.

Offline Clive G

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2018, 02:00:43 am »
Not a cave plaque for one individual, but a group of individuals: Chartist Cave - http://www.ogof.org.uk/chartists-cave.html

Here's a link to an image of the Mossdale Caverns plaque: https://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2017/06/23/service-marks-50th-anniversary-of-mossdale-caverns-tragedy-cavings-worst-disaster

There's a plaque to Roger Solari on the approach to Terminal Sump (Sump 1) in Agen Allwedd. He lost his life in Sump 4 in June 1974 (and his remains are still there). In late March/April 1974 the cleaning lady for my floor in the Rootes Hall of Residences at the University of Warwick, who was psychic and would do the Tarot for you if you asked, told me that she had just seen the 'sign of the coffin' in my sheets, whilst making my bed . . . She said that a death was going to occur that would be significant to me, but it did not mean trouble with my forthcoming exams! Well, absolutely no one in my family or any friends I knew at the time died and so it all seemed to be a false alarm. Yet I later, after graduating, ended up editing a sailing film for BBC TV in which Michael Bentine took part. He was absolutely certain that there is more to this world than we are fully aware of and spent much time researching 'the power of the human mind', as he subsequently described to me when we were planning a series on unexplained phenomenon that he was going to present and Bruce Bedford (founder and first editor of Descent magazine) was to have written - called Mapping the Mysteries. But, Channel 4 commissioning editors were a nightmare to get anywhere with and Michael died before we could get started. But, as my involvement with the exploration of the Llangattock caves started to take off (I and Rob Parker, who I met as a result, carried diving equipment for Martyn Farr's and Rob Palmer's first dive back into Maytime in Agen Allwedd in 1981 since the 1974 incident) the significance of the date when Roger Solari died finally started to sink in. So, when the opportunity came on the Friday night to push the first Daren Cilau breakthrough in 21 years through an open hole that I'd just opened up that night, I persuaded Jock Williams that we should wait for Martyn Farr and the others who were going to come in with us the following day. And after Martyn separated from his first wife, Sally, and consequently disappeared for a while from the pushing scene in Daren, it's a significant part of why I contacted him a second time out of the blue to join in for the Welly Boy Aven trip (see below). As a result Martyn ultimately ended up completing the dive through the mountain that he'd been unable to do with Roger in 1974. Martyn exited the dive via Elm Hole - which had first been dived in the 1970s by Roger Solari and where jock Williams and I helped him to recommence diving into the mountain in 1986 (there's a picture of the three of us together in wetsuits in the Clydach Gorge on the day) . . . and I still don't know the ultimate 'meaning' of all this.

I don't know if it is still there, but there was a plaque attached to a large boulder just prior to the entrance of Eglwys Faen cave in the Craig y Cilau NNR at Llangattock, Crickhowell, South Wales, in memory of Bill Gascoine. Bill was secretary of the local cave management group for a good many years and carried out a number of significant first long-distance dye traces underground, linking various surface sinks and underground sites with resurgences in the area and South Wales in general. There doesn't appear to be a picture available online, although I have a copy of an image of the plaque taken shortly after it was placed (with permission) by local cavers.

In the case of Giles Barker, it is good to see he has a memorial in Spain and that the local people have wanted to honour his memory. I was sitting on a London Underground Northern Line train about to pull into Bank or the next station or so heading north when, in the days of having to pay 50p for the newspaper, I saw a spare copy of the Evening Standard lying on the seat facing me. I just had time to read the short 'Stop Press' items on the back page, which used to give up-to-the-minute news in the days when most news was hours old by the time it reached the printing presses. In fact, I ended up reading only one item. It was headlined: 'Caver Killed in Northern Spain' . . . I then saw the name 'Giles Barker' at the bottom. All of a sudden the train stopped at the station where I had to get off and the doors opened. Not knowing which way to turn, I quickly tore the relevant piece out of the paper before hurriedly exiting the carriage - just in time prior to the doors closing and the train departing - leaving me standing on the platform, stunned.

Giles lent me the two ropes that were used to simultaneously climb the end of Preliminary Passage (Steve Holmes and Adrian Hanson-Abbott) and Welly Boy Aven (Tony White, Martyn Farr and Dick Gledhill) in Daren Cilau in February 1985. After Steve's best lead panned out at a horrible perched boulder choke, Dick came back to acquire the two ladders and second rope we had, which ended up being used by Tony (who'd successfully scaled the second-best lead to discover Higher Things) to make the first descent into White Passage. This is a memorial to Giles which will always be there, so long as the cave continues to exist - yet the plaque erected in Spain is, also, much appreciated.

There are plenty of people who seem to want to begrudge much in the world, especially when it comes to acknowledging others who are not themselves. I think the fewer the number of plaques the better, but, where appropriate, a plaque well placed can honour the memory of someone who has played a significant part in life or made a sacrifice locally. I can't think of a better example than the plaque at Grotte de la Luire in the Vercors, France, which I descended with Rob Murgatroyd in 1990, thanks to a welcoming, joint French-Italian summer-expedition scientific exploration of the cave, to a deep dry 'sump' from which I have a couple of rounded pebbles: https://baladesenisere.wordpress.com/2014/09/15/grotte-de-la-luire/ (penultimate image on the page).
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 02:22:15 am by Clive G »

Offline Dave254

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2018, 05:48:05 am »
There is also a plaque in Crackpot cave

Offline mikem

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2018, 05:57:55 am »
Bill Gascoigne: https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=19412.0

Of course there's the Giles Barker award at Hidden Earth.

The Craven have/had Stephen Nunwick memorial lectures.

BEC also for Don Coase.

Similarly Paul Esser:
http://www.bris.ac.uk/alumni/events/diary/2016/memorial-lecture.html

& Northern Boggarts, John Dixon memorial walk (Apr 2015 at least):
http://northernboggarts.org.uk

I think these are often a more fitting way of getting people together to remember lost friends.

Mike
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 06:13:23 am by mikem »

Offline langcliffe

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2018, 07:46:12 am »
If foreign cavers are included, there is a marble plaque memorial to Annette Bouchacourt outside the Grotte Annette Bouchacourt, one of the entrances to the Réseau de la Dent de Crolles. Ms. Bouchacourt was a member of Chevalier's team who died in a skiing accident. There is a photograph on the following web page:

https://www.braemoor.co.uk/crolles/annette.shtml

There is also a memorial plaque in the entrance porch of Guiers Mort, also one of the entrances to the Réseau de la Dent de Crolles, to someone who died in the system. I do not have the details.

Offline yrammy

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2018, 08:59:36 am »
Thanks so much to everyone for their contributions!
Mary

Offline Duncan Price

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2018, 09:33:27 am »
I think there was one to Bob Drake in Chamber 4 in Wookey Hole.

attached - visited when it was possible to get there without diving when the canal had been drained.

Offline Duncan Price

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Re: Memorials - research enquiry.
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2018, 09:37:50 am »
There used to be a memorial bench to Paul Esser at Porth yr Ogof.

Still there, and there are a depressingly large number of plates with the names of those who drowned (10?) in the resurgence on the cliff face above.

 

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