Author Topic: BCA 2020 Demographics Report  (Read 6044 times)

Offline PeteHall

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2021, 11:34:25 am »
Back tot the original topic:

Sorry to post on my personal account but will do so until the auto post works.

The report is available here: https://british-caving.org.uk/demographics-report/

I'd be very interested in hearing people's takes on it.
Rostam
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I notice that there are a number of members under 10 years old (and at least 1 under 4). I could add to this number by signing up my kids and I did think about this, as it's free, but what's the point?

I don't mean this in a dismissive way, but as a genuine question. What is the benefit for a 3 year old being a BCA member? or a 6 year old for that matter.

I'm sure they would be very happy to have a green card with their name on it, but other than that, what are the benefits? Could it be a club benefit (like using a members dormitory), or is there something else I've missed?

Offline Fjell

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2021, 11:36:00 am »
The one, almost unique, thing about caving is that women could participate on an equal footing with men at the highest level once SRT became ubiquitous. Compared to when we started in the ‘80’s there has been a big increase in participation.

It’s really the ideal sport for those who see not having to shower for several weeks as an upside.


Online ChrisJC

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2021, 11:44:51 am »
Equality of opportunity will hopefully lead to equality of outcome.

If the outcome isn’t equal (or representative to use a better word)  then either the opportunity isn’t equal or there is something else at play.


This is a really really important subject. I approve of your use of the word 'representative' as it is more accurate I think.

Nevertheless, (spoken as an engineer), unless you have an agreed 'result' that you are striving to take, taking 'measurements' is pointless. You don't know whether they are good or bad.

I suspect that trying to agree what is a 'good' result is essentially impossible. Is 30% LGBT+ good or bad? What would you do about it anyway?

I am much more in favour of assessing perceptions and the reality rather than numbers. And I think you could do that by surveying people.

There could be handy side effects to having the data, but I am not sure that should be a reason to do it. And certainly this thread has demonstrated some animosity towards the gathering of it.

Even 'prefer not to say' / 'none of the above' answers carry connotations!

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Offline JoshW

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2021, 11:47:04 am »
Equality of opportunity will hopefully lead to equality of outcome.

If the outcome isn’t equal (or representative to use a better word)  then either the opportunity isn’t equal or there is something else at play.

...it may highlight that the culture isn’t welcoming...

Reading between the lines (dangerous I know), I get the impression that you feel certain characteristics are under-represented and you think this is because cavers aren't welcoming enough. Please correct me if I've mis-represented your views.

Given that you appear to have made up your mind already, it seems likely that you would (subconsciously?) look to verify this opinion in the data. I feel like you are coming a this with an agenda rather than with an open mind.

I do have that opinion, you're correct, however at the moment it is just an opinion, and so it can't be proven either way (more than happy to be proven wrong, it happens often enough), and so statistics (and statistics over time) are the answer.

I've sat in caving huts with caving huts and heard derogatory language regarding sexual preference. If I were a person from the LGBTQ+ community I wouldn't have found it welcoming. This is obviously a one-off experience.

My agenda is only get more information that we can try and draw useful conclusions from. The analysis of the demographics would remain with P&I, I assume.

I can't understand why anyone would be afraid of having more information to draw from to see what the organisation is and isn't doing well.

For example in 2019 there was, thankfully briefly, some noise that funding for national parks was "racist" because users were disproportionately represented by white people. Far more sensible would have been asking how to promote outdoors to under represented communities and increase inclusion, but no common sense isn't so common it seems.


Agreed entirely, there's some great work being done in the outdoors by a group called black girls hike, who actually went caving with Steph Dwyer and Yorkshire Dales Adventure Guides, and this is the kind of positive story I like to see as an outcome from looking at stats.
All views are my own and not that of the BCA or any clubs for which I'm a member of.

Offline JoshW

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2021, 11:54:13 am »
Equality of opportunity will hopefully lead to equality of outcome.

If the outcome isn’t equal (or representative to use a better word)  then either the opportunity isn’t equal or there is something else at play.


This is a really really important subject. I approve of your use of the word 'representative' as it is more accurate I think.

Nevertheless, (spoken as an engineer), unless you have an agreed 'result' that you are striving to take, taking 'measurements' is pointless. You don't know whether they are good or bad.

I suspect that trying to agree what is a 'good' result is essentially impossible. Is 30% LGBT+ good or bad? What would you do about it anyway?

I am much more in favour of assessing perceptions and the reality rather than numbers. And I think you could do that by surveying people.

There could be handy side effects to having the data, but I am not sure that should be a reason to do it. And certainly this thread has demonstrated some animosity towards the gathering of it.

Even 'prefer not to say' / 'none of the above' answers carry connotations!

Chris.

I think you're potentially falling into the trap of looking at a snapshot and trying to draw conclusions from that (is 30% good or bad). What I want to see is movement over a period of time to be more representative of the UK population.

What to do about it is a good question and has been touched on here but not in great depth:
consider whether the issue is retention or attraction.

If retention, why? Is there something driving away members of that group (see my anecdotal evidence of derogatory language in caving huts)

If attraction, why? Generally those living in more rural areas are white, and therefore (theorising here) it isn't unreasonably to suggest that those in rural areas are more likely to get drawn into outdoors activities like caving, is it possible to generate an outreach program to other racial groups.

It's clearly a delicate subject for some, and hence why I was keen to open this out to the uk caving population, to get a straw poll of some of the more vocal members as to how enraged they would get.
All views are my own and not that of the BCA or any clubs for which I'm a member of.

Offline andrewmc

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2021, 12:12:55 pm »
Why are people afraid of the data?

Offline Fjell

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2021, 12:28:15 pm »
Why are people afraid of the data?

You are not going to get the data. I will be putting myself down as Jedi as usual.

Who is daft enough to submit actually personal information to the BCA data set? Especially after several years of reading about IT (mis)management wars.

Offline mikem

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2021, 12:30:08 pm »
Whilst membership is collected through the clubs you can't guarantee the security of the data, so it shouldn't be asked for that way. Your only current option is a survey, but that probably won't tell you much unless you get a good number of responses (which is unlikely with such a small number of members).

There are a lot of current concerns about banks, supermarkets & social networks collecting personal data & what uses they can put it to.

Pete - the main reason for including children is presumably so they are covered by insurance.

Offline nearlywhite

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2021, 12:40:43 pm »
This is what I get for posting on UKC I guess.

A few important points to address:
-All this data was anonymised on transfer to P&I and the data destroyed after use to abide by GDPR.
-it's useful to know demographic data because it can help us cater to the needs of our members. We need to know what's going on and see if what we're doing has an impact or not. That's why we need trend data.
-I included the helpful reports I could find, happy to have the other reports, would be nice to put them in one place. We are changing the way reports get stored as it is a problem but I disagree with the idea we haven't learned from them.

 I didn't include the Checc questionnaire as 1) it was superseded by the far larger vision questionnaire and 2) not deemed relevant to what is supposed to be an objective assessment of the membership database. Also my reports are too long as it is!

I'd say the biggest thing for signing your children up Pete is if they want to go caving in a club setting it's helpful (the free under 18s thing was done as there was a structural barrier stopping kids going caving a couple of times a year) and perhaps more importantly normalises children in at least part of the caving world. I'd also say that 3 isn't too young to cave but I might be biased in that regard.

Offline Ed

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2021, 12:56:37 pm »
Equality of opportunity will hopefully lead to equality of outcome.

If the outcome isn’t equal (or representative to use a better word)  then either the opportunity isn’t equal or there is something else at play.

...it may highlight that the culture isn’t welcoming...

Reading between the lines (dangerous I know), I get the impression that you feel certain characteristics are under-represented and you think this is because cavers aren't welcoming enough. Please correct me if I've mis-represented your views.

Given that you appear to have made up your mind already, it seems likely that you would (subconsciously?) look to verify this opinion in the data. I feel like you are coming a this with an agenda rather than with an open mind.

Let me give you an alternative explanation, and that is culture. My wife is from a minority ethic group. Within her culture, outdoor recreation really isn't poplar. She enjoys the outdoors much more than the rest of her family, as I have introduced her to the outdoor world, but her family (and most friends of the same ethnicity) have absolutely no interest in the outdoors. The opportunities are there, but culturally, there is no interest.
Before we had kids, my wife always attended any caving club socials that I went to, be it evening or weekend away. She has never felt anything other than welcome, but still has sod all interest in caving. Her words on one of the rare occasions I got her into a cave "why do you do this for fun".

I know this is only one example, but I think this is likely to have a far bigger impact than anything else. As ChrisJC has suggested, equality of opportunity does not always return equality of outcome/ representation.

Its not just about are caving clubs welcoming - I guess most are

Its about what are the barriers that are stopping people taking up the activity.

Take your wife or one of her relatives for example -- she is lucky that she has someone to introduce her to caving. Now imagine she / they hadn't meet you but wanted to take up caving.

Then you hit the barriers --- socioeconomic and historic rather than out and out racism / bigotry :

Where do I do it?
What are the "rules"
Are there clubs I can join ---- but they are all based in X and I live in Y. Can I join?
How do I get there?
What clothing do I need?

That is the big issue --- how to guide "minorities" to caving.

Take race for example -- money might not be the limiting factor. There are plenty of black and SE Asian folk with enough disposable income. But with out the historic/ cultural indicators and/or personal contact who do you go about doing it.

Yes its a bit easier if you live in an area with a lot of outdoor sport - Yorkshire, mendips/ Bristol but imagine if you live in a sink estate in the middle of London or Glasgow with no frame of reference....

Give you another example - a colleague of mine from a Caribbean background via the midlands living in Bradford now. She and a group of friends (wow --- race and gender LOL)  have really got in to walking. Who does she ask for advice and ideas of places to go? Family / family friends?

 No -because they have no reference to walking in rural Britain she ask me as I've a background in outdoors stuff.   Its not a conscious decision to ask me as I'm white and live in a rural area. No, its because I know  stuff  -its a subconscious choice as I'm the person in the know. 

At the present time there isn't that pool of knowledge / experience within the BAME communities that people can turn to --- its about getting that enabling information , help whatever you call it out there.

Oh --- and she hates the term BAME..... Quite rightly to - as its a meaningless lump us all together term

Offline mikem

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2021, 01:02:28 pm »
The BMC participation statistics can easily be found, although they are quite dated (2003), they include the statement (which does align with BCA membership data): "Analysis of the social status of participants shows a tendency for participants to either be young adults in higher education or middle aged, empty nesters who occasionally walk, hike or climb."

In 2019 British Canoeing had almost 3000 people complete their membership satisfaction survey, the majority were also in the 40 to 70 age bracket (with no equivalent peak for university age, although interestingly the majority who responded had also only been members for a couple of years). 73% are male & they do have sexuality, ethnicity & disability responses, but the end of the report does question whether these are necessary (certainly the prefer not to answer box got more ticks than most of the other options, so tends to question whether they are representative).
« Last Edit: February 22, 2021, 01:33:26 pm by mikem »

Offline Fishes

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2021, 01:40:50 pm »
Why are people afraid of the data?

I don't think people are necessarily afraid of the data.

Some are afraid of what others might do with the data. Others don't like their individuality being used so that organisations can wave their equality flag, or make judgements based on over simplistic data that groups together individuals into somewhat meaningless minority groups.

Very often this type of data and what it is used for can focus on the differences, rather than what we all have in common. I see that creating problems, rather than removing them.

Online Badlad

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2021, 01:43:44 pm »
Rostam - you've got a lot of feedback already on your OP.  Isn't that what you asked for?

I think a few people have got carried away with data collection that just isn't happening and was only a suggestion.  The original idea was to look at the age demographic of the membership.  In the event this is only collected as Year of Birth and is voluntary.  The reason given in my earlier reports was,

"Back in 2016 I encouraged BCA to collect age data from the membership.  There was anecdotal evidence in the caving regions that numbers of active cavers were declining, but this was at odds with total BCA membership numbers which remained buoyant.  Collecting age data over a period of time would allow analysis to take place to determine any trends in members’ age and whether action needed to be taken.  I suggested that the membership had an aging population and that this could cause future problems if not enough younger cavers were attracted to the sport to take their place. A separate discussion might be made on whether the BCA membership reflects those participating in our sport.
In the end BCA decided to collect year of birth (YOB) data but only on a voluntary basis.  With the help of the BCA administrator and a retired statistician I produced a report for council in 2017.  This follow up report includes data from both 2018 and 2019."

2018 & 19 report attached if anyone would like to see what this is all about.

Offline mikem

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2021, 01:54:17 pm »
The age demographic is also skewed slightly older in that if you want to remain a non-active member of a club you still have to join the BCA (this does not apply to BMC or BC(U) data). Have the numbers been compared for just green card holders, rather than all?

Online Badlad

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2021, 02:05:43 pm »
The conclusion and recommendations from my three years (2017-2019) reporting on the BCA age democratic.  I hope it wasn't time wasted.

Conclusion:

The age demographic of the BCA membership has remained much the same over the three years.  This shows an old membership but not necessarily an aging membership.  Data collection could be improved by making age mandatory on application.  Analysing the age data over a longer period will be able to identify any worrying or significant trends.  However, there are hints of trends, such as a decrease in the percentage of members in their 40s and 50s and an increase in those under 20 and over 70, which may be of interest.  It is not yet possible to conclude whether there is enough input at the younger end of the age demographic to offset those who depart from the upper end, nor is it possible to conclude, one way or the other, that membership input is healthy across the age spectrum.

Recommendations:

BCA should continue to collect annual membership data and analyse the results.  Consider making age data collection compulsory rather than voluntary.  Criteria should be set on the process of how and when data is supplied to the statistician.  I would be pleased to step aside from my role and place the statistician directly in contact with the administrator.  The longer term analysis of trends should inform council how to direct future efforts and budgeting towards the promotion of caving and recruitment into the sport going forward.

Online pwhole

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2021, 02:38:55 pm »

Take race for example -- money might not be the limiting factor. There are plenty of black and SE Asian folk with enough disposable income. But with out the historic/ cultural indicators and/or personal contact who do you go about doing it.

Yes its a bit easier if you live in an area with a lot of outdoor sport - Yorkshire, mendips/ Bristol but imagine if you live in a sink estate in the middle of London or Glasgow with no frame of reference....

Give you another example - a colleague of mine from a Caribbean background via the midlands living in Bradford now. She and a group of friends (wow --- race and gender LOL)  have really got in to walking. Who does she ask for advice and ideas of places to go? Family / family friends?

 No -because they have no reference to walking in rural Britain she ask me as I've a background in outdoors stuff.   Its not a conscious decision to ask me as I'm white and live in a rural area. No, its because I know  stuff  -its a subconscious choice as I'm the person in the know. 


I was talking to a black friend of mine about caving a few years ago, as he'd seen some of my photos - which he thought were great, but he said he couldn't see why I'd subject myself to so much 'misery', as he put it, to get them. I told him I thought it was exciting and interesting, but he just thought I was mental - it was a very good-humoured conversation though. But he said  'It's a classic white guy ting' (affecting his best Jamaican patois - though he's from Burngreave in Sheffield). And then he said "You'll never a see a black guy underground". To which I replied "Well, not until you laugh, anyway". He did laugh.

Anyway, a month later I was at the TSG, and what did I see but a black guy getting ready to go caving, on a Uni trip. This was too exciting for words, so I mentioned my previous conversation (now research!) to him, and he said it was probably true - he didn't know any other black people who went caving. So I had to ring my mate up and tell him his theory was at least a bit untrue - he was astonished, and sounded slightly disappointed. But a lot of this is clearly cultural differences, rather than practical obstacles.

Offline mikem

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2021, 02:46:52 pm »
The decrease in percentage of 40 & 50 year olds is only significant if it also coincided with a drop in actual numbers of those age groups. National studies show that the average age of the population increased from 36 in 1975 to 40 in 2019 (median was 34 back then, so approx 1 year increase every 10). If you consider that 20% of the population are under 18 (for arguments sake, average age 10) & thus not likely to be represented in BCA membership, then the average age of population that are represented will be nearer 50 years - which is closer to what most organisations find.

The 2018/19 report says 18% are over 65, this is surprisingly close to the 20% they make up of total population, although it isn't an accurate percentage, as U18s are under represented in caving.

& whatever you want to do nowadays, it has never been easier to find information about it.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2021, 03:06:30 pm by mikem »

Offline PeteHall

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2021, 02:56:28 pm »
There was anecdotal evidence in the caving regions that numbers of active cavers were declining, but this was at odds with total BCA membership numbers which remained buoyant.  Collecting age data over a period of time would allow analysis to take place to determine any trends in members’ age and whether action needed to be taken.

This is the important bit. There was (anecdotal) evidence of a potential problem (declining numbers of cavers) and a proposal put forward to allow that problem to be assessed (monitoring age demographics), in case action were required (yet to be determined?).

Is there a problem that the new proposal (to collect more data) is trying to resolve? Is there any evidence (anecdotal or otherwise) that such a problem exists? If there were a problem, is collecting this data going to help assess the extent of that problem or what is causing it?

Exit surveys would be more effective and are fairly standard practice. If I don't renew my insurance, the next week, I get an email asking me to complete a short survey as to why I didn't renew. While I suspect response rates might be low, I also suspect that anyone who left with a grievance, would be only too happy to respond and vent their frustrations.

Offline JoshW

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2021, 03:09:09 pm »
There was anecdotal evidence in the caving regions that numbers of active cavers were declining, but this was at odds with total BCA membership numbers which remained buoyant.  Collecting age data over a period of time would allow analysis to take place to determine any trends in members’ age and whether action needed to be taken.

This is the important bit. There was (anecdotal) evidence of a potential problem (declining numbers of cavers) and a proposal put forward to allow that problem to be assessed (monitoring age demographics), in case action were required (yet to be determined?).

Is there a problem that the new proposal (to collect more data) is trying to resolve? Is there any evidence (anecdotal or otherwise) that such a problem exists? If there were a problem, is collecting this data going to help assess the extent of that problem or what is causing it?

Exit surveys would be more effective and are fairly standard practice. If I don't renew my insurance, the next week, I get an email asking me to complete a short survey as to why I didn't renew. While I suspect response rates might be low, I also suspect that anyone who left with a grievance, would be only too happy to respond and vent their frustrations.

anecdotal evidence: Caving's diversity is poor and doesn't represent the wider UK population (I can name maybe 5 people of colour I know who cave regularly)
proposal: collect more data to monitor diversity demographics
action to be taken: dependent on results

I like the idea of exit surveys, but I don't think they would be even remotely as effective as you think they would be, as I think there would be an extremely low take-up on doing them, and even then all that gets you is more anecdotal evidence (which can highlight individual issues - which is awesome) but won't show an overall trend.
All views are my own and not that of the BCA or any clubs for which I'm a member of.

Offline PeteHall

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2021, 03:12:22 pm »
I was talking to a black friend of mine about caving a few years ago, as he'd seen some of my photos - which he thought were great, but he said he couldn't see why I'd subject myself to so much 'misery', as he put it, to get them. I told him I thought it was exciting and interesting, but he just thought I was mental - it was a very good-humoured conversation though. But he said  'It's a classic white guy ting' (affecting his best Jamaican patois - though he's from Burngreave in Sheffield). And then he said "You'll never a see a black guy underground". To which I replied "Well, not until you laugh, anyway". He did laugh.

Anyway, a month later I was at the TSG, and what did I see but a black guy getting ready to go caving, on a Uni trip. This was too exciting for words, so I mentioned my previous conversation (now research!) to him, and he said it was probably true - he didn't know any other black people who went caving. So I had to ring my mate up and tell him his theory was at least a bit untrue - he was astonished, and sounded slightly disappointed. But a lot of this is clearly cultural differences, rather than practical obstacles.

I definitely think it is cultural more than anything else.

University clubs are really good for breaking these cultural divides though, as they can (or could before covid) openly recruit from a huge pool of people, keen to try something new at freshers fair. I appreciate that this self-selects for middle class people who are more likely to go to university, but universities tend to be culturally diverse.

While at university, I caved with people of all skin colours (not that you could tell after a trip to Hall of the Mountain King), though it is true that the majority were white European.

Offline andrewmc

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2021, 03:13:37 pm »
As already stated, this is not happening, this is not a proposal, this is not a recommendation from the demographics report, this is just an idea mentioned briefly in this thread. So relax :halo:

This is the important bit. There was (anecdotal) evidence of a potential problem (declining numbers of cavers) and a proposal put forward to allow that problem to be assessed (monitoring age demographics), in case action were required (yet to be determined?).

Is there a problem that the new proposal (to collect more data) is trying to resolve?

For the sake of argument, lets go with a lack of ethnic diversity in caving as the 'potential problem' (or more specifically, barriers to ethnic minorities joining caving).

Quote
Is there any evidence (anecdotal or otherwise) that such a problem exists?

Yes. Here's my anecdote: almost all cavers are white. The exception is that student clubs are, in my experience, much more diverse than non-student clubs. Therefore, if my anecdote is right, student clubs are likely providing easier access to caving for ethnic minorities than non-student clubs, which begs the question: what are student clubs doing 'right' or non-student clubs doing 'wrong' or what other factors explain this?
Problem is, that's just an anecdote... (and let's remember that the plural of anecdote is not data and therefore whatever anecdotes other people will inevitably chip in with, it doesn't invalidate my anecdote)

Quote
If there were a problem, is collecting this data going to help assess the extent of that problem

Yes.

Quote
or what is causing it?

No.

Quote
Exit surveys would be more effective and are fairly standard practice. If I don't renew my insurance, the next week, I get an email asking me to complete a short survey as to why I didn't renew. While I suspect response rates might be low, I also suspect that anyone who left with a grievance, would be only too happy to respond and vent their frustrations.

We have enough trouble at the moment trying to contact the members we _still_ have, let alone the ones we haven't, but that's another issue altogether...

Virtually every University or job will be carrying out some sort of ethnicity data collection, plus data collection is entirely optional - it's hardly the beginnings of a police state. Nor is GDPR a problem.

Offline andrewmc

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2021, 03:14:38 pm »
Snap...

Offline JoshW

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #47 on: February 22, 2021, 03:16:12 pm »

University clubs are really good for breaking these cultural divides though, as they can (or could before covid) openly recruit from a huge pool of people, keen to try something new at freshers fair. I appreciate that this self-selects for middle class people who are more likely to go to university, but universities tend to be culturally diverse.


I agree, and I think something really interesting would be to use any data obtained (if it's obtained etc etc before people start freaking out again), to see how retention rates differ for people of colour post university.
All views are my own and not that of the BCA or any clubs for which I'm a member of.

Offline andrewmc

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #48 on: February 22, 2021, 03:16:31 pm »
I definitely think it is cultural more than anything else.

Well yes - what else could it be?

But that's no excuse - we should show all people how great caving is, not just people like ourselves (in whatever cultural sense that is be it skin colour or taste in music).

Offline mikem

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Re: BCA 2020 Demographics Report
« Reply #49 on: February 22, 2021, 03:18:09 pm »
Collecting that data isn't going to tell you anything you don't already know, as the "don't want to tell you" data will be more significant than any of the others.

The majority of members don't choose whether to join or leave the BCA, they make the decision on the basis of their club, & most of those who only join for a year find they don't get enough caving done to justify the cost (for a variety of reasons).

 

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