'What if' or 'Shit happens'

Fulk

Well-known member
Here?s an idea for a new thread ? the ?what if? or ?shit happens? scenario.

To set the ball rolling:

1) What would you do if you?re climbing a rope (Frog style) with a knot in it and you inadvertently ram your hand jammer so hard into the knot that you can?t release it?

2) Same scenario, only this time you?ve moved up your foot jammer but contrived to ram your chest jammer into the knot?
 

Rhys

Moderator
Scramble on to a nearby ledge. Secure yourself to the upper part of the rope with your spare jammer. Cut to rope at the knot to retrieve your stuck jammers. Continue upwards.

Been there, done that - more or less...

Rhys
 

Fulk

Well-known member
Great ? if there's a nearby ledge, but what if there isn't, and it's a free hang?
 

Rhys

Moderator
In my case, luckily, there was. It was more complicated than this situation, but more or less the same principle.

If no ledge, what I would do is not much different: Secure yourself as high up the upper rope as you can with your spare jammer (or a prusick loop if you don't have one). Load that jammer by standing in a sling (or attach your foot loop to it). Cut the rope at the knot to release your kit.

You would need to re-rig the pitch for any mates stuck below you. But if you had mates above or below you they could maybe come to your aid anyway...

Rhys
 

bograt

Active member
Carry a "boot lace", rig a prussik knot to take the pressure of either jammer, release it and carry on. In the SRT pioneering days it used to happen often!!. ;)
 

cavermark

New member
One of the lesons is to choose the type of knot for midrope joins carefully. some joining knots would be easy to untie once unweighted, even with a jammer rammed up to them.

Is there a loop to clip into associated with the knot?
If yes, clip long cows tail into it.
If you have a spare jammer it could be loaded a couple of inches below the stuck jammer and attach your footloop, then remove your croll and get your full weight onto the new jammer. Bounce a little and this might just stretch (and therefore make thinner) the rope enough to be able to inch the stuck jammer down bit by bit until it can be removed.

If no spare jammer, an alpine knot could be tied below the stuck jammer and footloop clipped to that.

If that doesn't work, then getting above the knot (with spare jammer, or by shortening footloop and a making big high step if no spare) and untying/cutting from above would be the only way.
 
I always carry a shunt on my SRT kit as it can be utilised for all sorts of emergencies, including the one envisaged here....

D.
 

Amy

New member
If getting it unweighted/off is totally impossible (no ledge, no way to weight under it to sretch rope, etc etc) take it OFF use spare ascender to finish climb. After derigging untie knot and get your ascender back. Of course...us style frog we carry a qas...making this easy to do...and then you have a Texas system to finish the climb.


I like doing stuff like this. We have biweekly vertical practice which usually consists of actually DOING this stuff. In a tree. On a line rigged to lower. We also do things like rappelling into the knot at the VERY end of a rope, blindfolded changeovers (what if light goes out and no spare handy?) and blindfolded with someone spraying you from above with a garden hose. (Light goes out Ina waterfall!) lots of "ok this ascender is now stuck/broken what ya gonna do?" Scenarios as well. Oh also, emergency climb. It's happened where you get back and your kit is all gone. You have the rope. What now? How can you SAFELY climb out with ONLY the rope?
 

Alex

Well-known member
Untie the knot to get your jammer back? I am afraid that don't always work. As the jammer jams the knot so it cant be untied. My mate had to borrow my hand jammer for all the pitches above it after he jammed it in the knot after a particular difficult pitch head.

Climb out with only rope? Well if you have some friends up the pitch I guess you tie a harness and your mates haul you (unless there gear is gone too!). With more than one rope (other than the pitch rope) then you can make a harness and prussic knots I guess.
 

Amy

New member
Alex said:
Climb out with only rope? Well if you have some friends up the pitch I guess you tie a harness and your mates haul you (unless there gear is gone too!). With more than one rope (other than the pitch rope) then you can make a harness and prussic knots I guess.
The idea is you and your group decend into the cave. Drop your vert gear and do the caving. Come back, and all your gear is GONE. How do you get out? And yes I have heard of instances where this has happened so it's not completely insane scenario. Pack rats...other group comes in and gear gets mixed up and taken out by accident...prank...

I'm giving away the answer hence the nsfw tag to hide it for those who don't want to see it, but spoiler is safe for work! And no second rope. You just have the end of the rope rigged. Stuff you ALWAYS carry in your pack is fair use though.
[nsfw]I always carry 20-ft webbing and carabiner in my pack, so there is my nice Swiss seat harness. Use the end of the rope to tie a Blake's hitch - works like prussik but on - and this is key - same diameter of rope and is tied with the end of a rope. Blakes is your progress capture. You'll have to footlock to stand up, slide up the blakes, sit down, re-footlock, stand up sliding up the Blakes, rinse and repeat.

It fucking sucks and not everyone will be physically able to do it (I did a few barely successful cycles, but some can climb for 100-ft that way!) - but if you're stuck in the pit, only one person has to get out!

If you do not have a webbing piece, use a rock to bash off a bit of rope end for a seat harness to be tied. [/nsfw] Cavet is - I'm not sure if the solution would work with a rebelay.
 

Blakethwaite

New member
Not sure I'd fancy trying to bash a rope in half with the nice smooth limestone or cobbles generally found at the bottom of pitches! Presumably it would be quicker to get the group idiot to try and chew through the rope?  :-\
 

Roger W

Well-known member
No need for dragons...

If your group have climbed down into some large underground chamber, and are then ascending a further pitch or aven: you are the last one in the group and as you are about to start your climb someone above loosens a large rock which falls, trapping you by the fingers and blocking the climb so preventing your mates from coming back to help you....
 

Roger W

Well-known member
Ah, only need to cut your fingers off with your blunt penknife.  But then you've still got to climb up that first pitch to get out...
 

owd git

Active member
would you still have enough finger on the one hand for your lord to acknowledge a prayer if both hands were put together in the 'correct' manner? (y)
 

cavermark

New member
owd git said:
would you still have enough finger on the one hand for your lord to acknowledge a prayer if both hands were put together in the 'correct' manner? (y)

You'd probably only need one finger to make an appropriate gesture to the lord in those circumstances!?
 

bograt

Active member
cavermark said:
owd git said:
would you still have enough finger on the one hand for your lord to acknowledge a prayer if both hands were put together in the 'correct' manner? (y)

You'd probably only need one finger to make an appropriate gesture to the lord in those circumstances!?

:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
 
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