Bat Hibernation

Les W

Les W

Active member
kay said:
whitelackington said:
It might be the difference along these lines
Completely different species  totaly unable to interbreed

subspecies, don't interbreed because they are on different islands,
but if some swam across and were despearate, just possibly  a viable baby might be born, but not very likely. :coffee:
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Doesn't it happen in the animal world, too <dredges memory> - isn't part of the ruddy duck problem that it interbreeds with one of our native ducks, which is of a different species
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Also Horses and Donkeys can interbreed as can Lions and Tigers.
 
E

emgee

Guest
Dep said:
Good question. There are specific terms to refer to 'species' that are utterly separate and cannot interbreed, and those that are 'sub-species' that whilst different still can.
I don't unfortunately know the precise definition of 'species' as opposed to 'race' or 'sub-species'.
But I am sure that someone else on the forum will with such a font of knowledge here.
Anyone?
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Different species can interbreed but the off spring are sterile needs to be thrown in here somewhere. Mules being the obvious example.
 
Piglet

Piglet

Member
Bet you wish you'd never asked!!!  :-[

Alternatively, contact your local Bat Group and see if they have any answers.
 
A

andymorgan

Guest
It is difficult to define what a species is. To some degree the definitions are down to the human need to categorise things into discrete boxes. Because of evolution things aren't so black and white and there are many grey areas. Indeed it is a good argument against creatiothe inabilty to produce fertile offspring nists who say "no-one has shown a species evolve": ask them to tell you what a species is.
          In animals the dinition that two species are separate if they cannot produce fertile off spring works quite well as  a definition. In bacteria 70% DNA similarity can define a species, which is very arbitrary, and something scientists argue about a lot!

This bat example is very interesting, how long ago were they recognised as differnt species?
 
graham

graham

New member
The bat species have only been recognised in the last few years (less than five I think).

I agree about the use of this definition as a helpin p***ing off creationists. A good example of the problems that categorising in this way are ring species. See http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/ridley/a-z/Ring_species.asp for a description of how these work.
 
graham

graham

New member
whitelackington said:
May I ask the bat people, if has been suggested by Chris
bats do not really hibernate.

Wot is it they are doing in OUR CAVES? :coffee:
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They are not your caves.  :tease:
 
A

andymorgan

Guest
My earlier post was a complete mess (a bit tired at the time), and I can't modify it, so here it is again, but corrected:

It is difficult to define what a species is. To some degree the definitions are down to the human need to categorise things into discrete boxes. Because of evolution things aren't so black and white and there are many grey areas. Indeed it is a good argument against creationists who say "no-one has shown a species evolve": ask them to tell you what a species is.
          In animals the definition that two species are separate if they cannot produce fertile off-spring works quite well as a definition. In bacteria 70% DNA similarity can define a species, which is very arbitrary, and something scientists argue about a lot!

This bat example is very interesting, how long ago were they recognised as differnt species?
 
whitelackington

whitelackington

New member
We had an excellant trip in Singing River Mine, Mendipshire, yesterday,
extremly pleasant in the cave/mine, did not see a single bat but did see
a green leaved plant growing a very long way from daylight,
also tree/plant roots reaching down to the water table.
Isn't life determined.
Apart from the showers, very, very warm near the top of Mendip for the time of year.
If there is food about, I expect (as so warm, like early Autumn, look how long the tree leaves have stayed on this year) that many bats will still be out hunting and not hibernating.

Do bats hibernate in rainforests, where it never gets cold and there is always food?
 
W

wormster

Guest
whitelackington said:
Do bats hibernate in rainforests, where it never gets cold and there is always food?
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ERRR, NO.

went to the "Madre de Dios" a couple of years ago,

whilst there asked same question.

there's the answer that I got :)
 
P

Peter Burgess

New member
Perhaps as the climate warms, bats will move north to an area where it is still cold enough in the winter to necessitate hibernation. So all you Dales cavers can have all our Daubentons and Natterers which insist on parking their bums in our mines during the winter. You might get the Horseshoes from the West as well. We'll probably end up with some other species instead. It may be a necessary thing for the bats to hibernate - they mate in the Autumn and give birth the next spring, and I wonder whether the hibernation period is a necessary part of the mating cycle. Even a shortening of the hibernation period might affect the chance of a baby bat going 'full-term'. All this is just me thinking 'out loud' - I really have no scientific data to support this idea.
 
whitelackington

whitelackington

New member
whitelackington said:
May I ask the bat people, if has been suggested by Chris
bats do not really hibernate.

Wot is it they are doing in OUR CAVES? :coffee:
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Just heard on the wireless,
for England, this has been the warmest autumn for almost
three hundred and fifty years
so that has pushed the season back by a month.
IE, leaves not falling possibly bats not torporing.
 
W

Walrus

Guest
If it happened consistantly over the next few years and the bats dont hibernate (or torp) could this affect access to certain caves?
 
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