D
Dep
Guest
Bats round here are still on the wing -still a few bugs to feed on so no need to go into hibernation yet.
A
andymorgan
Guest
graham said:
I'm sure the researchers admit that there are some effects of research. I know people who work on birds, and they take into account possible effects of their experiments on the behaviour of the birds.
D
darkplaces
Guest
You can't account for the Heisenberg Principal, unless you have a star trek transporter of course.
The very act of measuring something affects the results.
The very act of measuring something affects the results.
D
darkplaces
Guest
It gets bigger :tease:graham said:
A
andymorgan
Guest
I'm sure most men may say they are bigger after measuring themselves 
Peter Burgess
New member
So G.B. Main Chamber must have been surveyed many, many times if it is now the largest chamber in the U.K.
gus horsley
New member
Oh no no no no no no no no no no no............
W
Walrus
Guest
andymorgan said:I'm sure most men may say they are bigger after measuring themselves
It depends weather you measure from the top or from the bottom...
whitelackington
New member
A few years ago, I read that, bat fanatics had now decided that we have an extra species of bat in Britain.
The resoning behind this theory was that pipistrelles seem to have different pitch squeeks.
So, apparently, they either have a high pitched squeek (species A)
or an even higher pitched squeek (species B)
I don't know if they have yet determined any genetic difference? :doubt:
The resoning behind this theory was that pipistrelles seem to have different pitch squeeks.
So, apparently, they either have a high pitched squeek (species A)
or an even higher pitched squeek (species B)
I don't know if they have yet determined any genetic difference? :doubt:
cap n chris
Well-known member
whitelackington said:
Don't know about the genetics but certainly this is correct; there are now Pipistrelle and Soprano Pipistrelle bats (I guess that Species B equates to the Soprano Pipistrelle).
cap n chris
Well-known member
Hmmm, I wonder....
.... Les, do you only spend time with people who have a similar pitched voice to your own?
.... Les, do you only spend time with people who have a similar pitched voice to your own?
D
Dep
Guest
Les W said:I thought that I had heard that they don't interbreed (perhaps they can only find other bats of the same pitch or frequency
This would make them different species if it is true.
This is how speciation works - given enough time the differences (which can be environmental or regional) add up to the point at which the two groups do not intermix and thus cease to share genetic material. Over many gnerations the two gene-pools move away and become incompatible and at that point you have a new species.
Round our way the bats are not left alone in winter (although we lock the sites up to restrict access for cavers) but instead the bat researchers spend ages poking around and shining lights into the corners and cracks and generally disturbing them without any justification. (IMO) They claim to count them but only look in a restricted area when it would be far simpler and more accurate to leave a bat detector at the small enatrnce hole and thus count EVERY bat without disturbing them in any way at all.
kay
Well-known member
Dep said:Les W said:I thought that I had heard that they don't interbreed (perhaps they can only find other bats of the same pitch or frequency
This would make them different species if it is true.
This is how speciation works - given enough time the differences (which can be environmental or regional) add up to the point at which the two groups do not intermix and thus cease to share genetic material. Over many gnerations the two gene-pools move away and become incompatible and at that point you have a new species.
Do the species have to be physically incompatible before they're regarded as a new species? I thought they only had to be non-mixing in the wild. In the plant world there are many inter-species hybrids (that's how we have developed many of our cultivated plants). The parents are regarded as separate species, even though they can produce viable offspring, because in the wild they occupy different habitats and do not interbreed. Or so I understand.
Round our way the bats are not left alone in winter (although we lock the sites up to restrict access for cavers) but instead the bat researchers spend ages poking around and shining lights into the corners and cracks and generally disturbing them without any justification. (IMO) They claim to count them but only look in a restricted area when it would be far simpler and more accurate to leave a bat detector at the small enatrnce hole and thus count EVERY bat without disturbing them in any way at all.
D
Dep
Guest
Good question. There are specific terms to refer to 'species' that are utterly separate and cannot interbreed, and those that are 'sub-species' that whilst different still can.
I don't unfortunately know the precise definition of 'species' as opposed to 'race' or 'sub-species'.
But I am sure that someone else on the forum will with such a font of knowledge here.
Anyone?
I don't unfortunately know the precise definition of 'species' as opposed to 'race' or 'sub-species'.
But I am sure that someone else on the forum will with such a font of knowledge here.
Anyone?
whitelackington
New member
It might be the difference along these lines
Completely different species totaly unable to interbreed
subspecies, don't interbreed because they are on different islands,
but if some swam across and were despearate, just possibly a viable baby might be born, but not very likely.
Completely different species totaly unable to interbreed
subspecies, don't interbreed because they are on different islands,
but if some swam across and were despearate, just possibly a viable baby might be born, but not very likely.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Given that they echolocate at different frequencies, couldn't it just be as simple as stating that, in bat terms, they simply don't speak to one another sufficiently to "get it together"?
kay
Well-known member
whitelackington said:It might be the difference along these lines
Completely different species totaly unable to interbreed
subspecies, don't interbreed because they are on different islands,
but if some swam across and were despearate, just possibly a viable baby might be born, but not very likely.
Definitely not so in the plant world, since there are most definitely hybrids between two different species - for example, 'false oxlip' which is a hybrid between primrose Primula vulgaris and Cowslip Primula veris - (and even the odd hybrid between two genera, eg Fatshedera which is Fatsia x Hedera)
Doesn't it happen in the animal world, too <dredges memory> - isn't part of the ruddy duck problem that it interbreeds with one of our native ducks, which is of a different species
