Bolting Churt Hall

[global_s]

I know anyone who can get down Garlands under their own steam can do this with their eyes shut, but there is a place to introducing people to caving with a bit of excitement and spits seem all a bit 20th century.

I've got the bolts so obviously can do the trip, but wouldn't some nice resin bolts mak it a bit more modern. Still at least some of the spits are are in good condition. I rigged a traverse line and jumped off and they held.

If the DCO are a bit busy I don't mind doing it.

 

[Alex]

So garlands is still on bolts, strange, a place like that would have been p-anchored 10 years ago in the Dales.

 

[ditzy 24//7]

Garlands is p bolted but think he means churt hall?

 

[global_s]

Yes I meant Churt Hall Traverse. A second resin bolt at the end would be nice going back to Garlands would be nice as well.

 

[Gollum]

It was discussed at a PICA meeting a couple of years ago and agreed/voted not to bolt it. We also got the impression from DCRO members at that meeting that they would prefer not to have it bolted also.

 

[global_s]

So as the DCO don't actually own the cave we'll just keep drilling more spits in?

 

[Pete K]

Some historical context on this.
The Chert Hall traverse was bolted with Spits well over 15 years ago for training and adventurous trips. Since then it has seen a number of new Spits and 1 resin bolt (Non DCA) placed to replace worn out spits. There are a number of large drilled holes that one user used to place expansion anchors in for trips and then remove after.
The route has increased in popularity in the last few year, especially among professional cavers so I took this matter to DCA and PICA for discussion over a year ago. The DCA agreed that as recreational cavers would not use this route often, and would no doubt free climb it, that it did not qualify for resin bolts. The argument being that it would be instructors only so did not fit the ethos of the resin bolting scheme (er.. Jug Holes, Devonshire and Suicide anyone?). My concern was that as the current Spits wore out (some have) that new ones would be added, increasing the bolt rash in this area. DCA agreed that should a recommendation come from PICA to resin bolt the route, they would consider it. PICA agreed to ask the DCA to replace the Spits with resin as and when they became unsafe. That is the current state of play, no change in the Spit anchors as yet so no official request for resin.
DCRO have no opinion on this as far as I am aware only to say that they did not want any bolts placed to aid hypothetical rescues (one other argument made by some for resin here). A number of club groups use the Spits on this route to train for expedition rigging. Resin is faster to rig to for instructors but (not that I have a big head) I can rig almost as fast on Spits having done this dozens of times.

I would personally like to see resin before more Spits are placed, far better for conservation in the long run. The good spits could be pulled out and the holes reused for resin, failed spits will need core drilling or plugging up but will almost always be left there. The current Spit anchors are fine so the route is perfectly doable without any additional bolting. If they begin to wear out again then I'll be happy to champion resin over more Spits. I'll happily pay for the anchors, install and test them to EN standard myself.

There are a number of different users and varied opinions on this route but the right channels must be used. Having a drill is not licence to use it against popular opinion. I write this with 4 hats on my head - DCA officer, PICA chairman, Club caver and CIC who uses this area with clients.
My advice - leave it for now. There is a pathway already established for resin bolting in future should the will be there. Further requests for anchors should go to the DCA equipment officer.

 

[JB]

I know anyone who can get down Garlands under their own steam can do this with their eyes shut, but there is a place to introducing people to caving with a bit of excitement and spits seem all a bit 20th century.

I've got the bolts so obviously can do the trip, but wouldn't some nice resin bolts mak it a bit more modern. Still at least some of the spits are are in good condition. I rigged a traverse line and jumped off and they held.

If the DCO are a bit busy I don't mind doing it.

I'm sure we can agree that Giants Hole is a cave of national importance; it's a named site in the Castleton SSSI. Speaking as an installer of BCA anchors on behalf of DCA I'm in favour of equipping for cavers for recreation and exploration. I'm not in favour of permanently modifying the cave and creating a mini Wrysgan, Rhiwbach or Cwmorthin on our Derbyshire doorstep.

Anchors on this traverse between the top of Garlands Pot and Chert Hall take you nowhere that can't be accessed by abseiling down the pitch and an easy climb up so replacing these anchors would be purely to facilitate a Go-Ape type experience for the clients of caving instructors and novice cavers.

I'm not a DCA Officer though; just my personal opinion.

 

[Madness]

My tuppence worth

Surely it is better for the DCA to install proper resin anchors than to wait for some individual to decide to do a DIY job, or await the appearance of a rash of new spits.

At least if the DCA do it they'll be placed correctly.

 

[JB]

My tuppence worth

Surely it is better for the DCA to install proper resin anchors than to wait for some individual to decide to do a DIY job, or await the appearance of a rash of new spits.

At least if the DCA do it they'll be placed correctly.

I'm not waiting for anyone to do a DIY job - I'd hope that people will not drill big holes and install steel fixings in this fragile, fantastic and rare place entirely unnecessarily!

 

[Gollum]

I am in agreement with JB re reasons for not bolting. Many years ago some bolts were installed in other systems for group use to try and reduce queuing at certain pitch heads.
If you've been caving recently you may have noticed even in the most popular systems there is not a lot of queuing needed. Why do we need to spend time, money and effort to bolt excessively.

 

[paul]

Well said JB!