Castleton problems

[alastairgott]

yes, from the meters along the road, PW says Buxton Road and I heard Buxton road a lot last night as well.

Buxton road it must be!

The onroad bays start outside the peak cavern car park and continue up the (Treakcliff/odin/mamtor) road to the speedwell overflow (I'm guessing they're thinking of Reinstating the meters up that section of road, they are currently burnt out and broken).

 

[Edd]

Here are my notes from the meeting last night:

- Castleton villagers are very against the proposed changes and everyone wants to see them stopped/blocked
- DCC were invited along to the meeting but didn't attend (they said they hadn't received the invitation)
- Verbally, DCC have said that the intention is to raise revenues
- The planning rules don't allow revenue raising to be used as a justification for introducing pay and display parking (only safety concerns and relieving congestion)
- An accountant has analysed some reports about similar applications in Derbyshire made a loss of ?1k and one only made ?5k - so not really worth it economically (there were a number of figures stated, hopefully the source report will be referenced by Castleton PC somewhere soon)
- Studies of introducing similar schemes in Glossop, Ashbourne and Matlock stated that the towns were too small to benefit from such a system
- DCC have conducted no studies into the viability or impact of the scheme so there is no basis for it.
- The scheme is planned to be extended through the Hope Valley (Hathersage, Bamford & Hope)
- The local councillors and MP are very much behind the Castleton residents

CASTLETON PARISH COUNCIL PLANS
- Raise the issue in the media
- EVERYONE to send in their objections by 2nd September
- Legal options to be investigated
- Local ombudsman will be contacted
- Statement of facts/refutation of DCC's case will be put together

 

[Edd]

I should emphasise that the two really important things are;
1) Send in your objections by WEDNESDAY
2) If you have relevant experience or expertise to fight these changes, make yourself known. I'm trying to get a point of contact in Castleton Parish Council to coordinate this help.

 

[Cave_Troll]

the question of legality will be brushed aside . the flashing yellow lights outside the school have a sign under them saying "funded by the castleton on street parking scheme"
DCC'll say that the new P&D bays will be used to find safety schemes and so its justified

the 3 bays next to the bus station on the opposite side of the road from the perivil stores are going to be 30 mins waiting. so that's the "people want to pop in for a newspaper" problem "sorted".

at least one of the dropped kerbs that are described as "wheelchair access" is actually to solve the problem of there being a manhole crossing the kerb. the others will likely be marked and the bays arranged so they're not blocked

there is a gap in the bays outside the peak hotel which will "allow cars from hope to pull in to allow cars from castleton to pass"

the bloke with a garage next to the stores will find that there are no bays in front of his garage and in fact the double yellows will prevent parking in front of it.

I'd guess that the meters will be on the pavement on the same side as the bus turning circle. the bays outside the church will also probably have meters on the pavement side of the road. so narrow pavements won't be blocked.

The council will probably view the opinions of the villagers as just "scared of change"

the on road parking out past the Peak cavern carpark towards odin will become 4 hours max. at the moment MTB and walkers can stay there all day, this will stop them doing that. i suspect that it may well get changed back to all day . especially as part of a "compromise" from DCC

 

[Cave_Troll]

thats from my experience of working with councils on residents parking by the way..

you may be able to put in a Freedom of information request to see the logs of emails coming in to DCC to prove that they did not get the invite email from the parish council.

sorry i don't work for that council so i can't  help with that...

 

[Pitlamp]

Despite Cave Troll's less than encouraging opinion - the only certainty is that, if we don't raise structured objections, this will go ahead.

Just do it.

 

[droid]

Agreed, Pitlamp.

However: given DCC's performance in Matlock Bath, despite several thousand motorcyclists protesting and opposition from local businesses, I wouldn't hold my breath.....

 

[Gollum]

I used to have a lot of meetings with DCC in my previous roll of union rep. I can tell you from experience that DCC believe consultation is telling you what they are doing. I wish you luck with your campaign.

 

[martinb]

DCC road roughshod over the people of Hasland, Chesterfield a number of years ago when they installed traffic lights at a junction where there had been a mini roundabout.

Instead of relatively free flowing traffic, the timing of the lights snarled up the surrounding roads. So the good people of Hasland started a petition demanding their roundabout back. Then a number of pedestrian accidents caused by cars squarely shifted DCC focus as there had never been a problem with the pelican crossing when there had been a mini roundabout.

IIRC, there was a fatality and DCC promised to put back the mini roundabout and crossing. They did and everything is back to normal.

So perhaps, when DCC make the changes, realise that the village shops and pubs start shouting that they are loosing money, they'll put everything back to how it was.

 

[Pitlamp]

Agreed, Pitlamp.

However: given DCC's performance in Matlock Bath, despite several thousand motorcyclists protesting and opposition from local businesses, I wouldn't hold my breath.....

It might have depended on whether said motorcyclists took the trouble to produce properly structured arguments or whether many of their communications were less than polite.

It strikes me that perhaps DCA might usefully state a position on this problem, which would affect all Peak District cavers if it were to go ahead. It would be more difficult for the Council to go against the express wishes of the organisation that represents all cavers' interests in this caving area - especially when it relates to (arguably) the finest cave system in the Peak District. I'm not a member currently so I'm not in a position to ask its officers. But it'd be great if someone who is a member could do).

In fact, if DCC hasn't directly consulted DCA already, a perfectly reasonable question is "Why not?". If they haven't then it reveals how shallow an effort they've made to "consult" stakeholders.

 

[Jenny P]

In fact DCA have been asked by TSG members to help over this problem and have been in communication with them to see if there is anything we can do.  We have not been approached by DCC.

One thing which puzzles me slightly over this is the reference to DCC.  I was under the assumption that it was the local DISTRICT Council who have responsibility for parking enforcement.  So, in the case of Castleton this would be High Peak Borough Council.  Certainly the parking restrictions in Ashbourne are overseen by Derbyshire Dales District Council, not by DCC.  If HPBC could be persuaded to object as well as the Parish Council and the residents there could be some mileage in that.

Also worth noting that the motorcyclists have voted with their wheels over the new restrictions in Matlock Bath - The comment today was that there had never been so many motorcycles parked outside the Smithy Cafe in Monyash.  This will have lost the traders of Matlock Bath a lot of money so one hopes they will get on to Derbyshire Dales D.C. and protest about this.

Jenny Potts,
DCA Hon. Sec.

 

[Edd]

It is definitely Derbyshire County Council, who are trying to implement the scheme. Derbyshire County Council are for the scheme and all of the local politicians - from the Parish Council to local MP - are against the scheme. Someone (the Chairman?) of High Peak Borough Council was at the public meeting on Thursday and said he would voice his objections too, as did Jocelyn Streak the County Councillor (elected member not civil servant).

I'm waiting to hear back from the Castleton Parish Council at the moment so there is direct communication between them and the cavers. I'd like them to collect all of their evidence and publish a document and if you have information about Matlock Bath, that'd be useful.

 

[alastairgott]

Jenny, I believe the differences come because apparently castleton is on a trunk road, so the decision comes down to the highways something or other rather than HP borough.

(Trunk road being a main road through Derbyshire)

 

[droid]

The A6 through Matlock Bath is also a trunk road.....

 

[Mark Wright]

The A625 hasn't been a Trunk Road since the Mam Tor stretch of it collapsed for the final time in 1979.

Mark

 

[kay]

The A6 through Matlock Bath is also a trunk road.....

No it's not. There was a major de-trunking exercise somewhere around 2000 and responsibility for a whole raft of roads was passed from Highways Agency (now Highways England) to Local Authorities. There is now no E-W trunk road between Derby and Barnsley.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/524170/s150003_Network_Management_interim_update.pdf   

 

[droid]

Point taken.

Can I retain some credibility by pointing out that Barnsley is NORTH of Derby, not E/W of it?

 

[Pitlamp]

Thanks for your thoughts Jenny.

What kind of "consultation" is this, in which access to the Peak's premier cave system would be so adversely affected, yet the Derbyshire Caving Association hasn't even been approached?!

This is clearly all about trying to squeeze money from people who would get no choice but to have the scheme inflicted on them - but in such a horribly inefficient way (i.e. only a tiny fraction of the revenue, if any, would actually go to the DCC) also causing widespread and unnecessary inconvenience.

Object now - or moan at leisure . . . . .

 

[Chocolate fireguard]

Can I retain some credibility by pointing out that Barnsley is NORTH of Derby, not E/W of it?

I'm not sure you can.
You might want to re-read and re-think kay's post.

What kind of "consultation" is this, in which access to the Peak's premier cave system would be so adversely affected, yet the Derbyshire Caving Association hasn't even been approached?!

This comes over as a bit self-absorbed.

Don't get me wrong - I'm sure the proposed scheme will badly affect Castleton cavers (I am one of them, on a good day) - but it's not realistic to believe that cavers will be on DCC's list of people to consult, let alone near the top of it.
In the great scheme of things there aren't that many of us and in the past TSG has sensibly tried to keep a low profile in the village. When sober anyway.

Object now - or moan at leisure . . . . .

Yes.

 

[Mrs Trellis]

Cavers? It's about raising revenue from a tourist honeypot.