Castleton problems

Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Thanks Chocolate Fireguard. Some good points there but I disagree that DCC shouldn't have consulted DCA.

If I submit a planning application for my house to be altered I'm expected to have consulted all sorts of experts about umpteen peripheral issues. The presence of bats is one example. If just one bat has squatted in my loft, I can't disturb it.

Given Castleton's nationally important cave system at stake (visited by a great many cavers), together with the well established (and excellent) role which DCA is well known to perform in the Peak District, I'm afraid that DCC bypassing DCA is just not good enough. At best, it reveals a lack of proper effort to consult genuinely. (At worst, one can only speculate on what devious tricks it may suggest.)

If DCC wants to muck so many people around they should at least organise a proper consultation, involving all stakeholders.
 
kay

kay

Well-known member
droid said:
Point taken.

Can I retain some credibility by pointing out that Barnsley is NORTH of Derby, not E/W of it?
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<sigh> There is a trunk road running E-W from Derby. If you go north from Derby, there is no trunk road running E-W until you get to Barnsley.

OR

In the area between Derby (to the S) and Barnsley (to the N) there is no trunk road running E/W.

(I do know Barnsley isn't E/W of Derby, you know. I live in Yorkshire. Barnsley's in Yorkshire. Derby's down south ;) )
 
pwhole

pwhole

Well-known member
My letter has included a paragraph about the scientific and recreational importance of the Peak-Speedwell system to the nation - it seemed a bit overblown initially, but then I thought sod it - it's just as important a factor as any other in Castleton that they might be considering. From our perch high up on Longcliffe yesterday, we could see that yet again the field beyond Goosehill Hall was doing a brisk trade in 'overflow' parking again - at least 100 cars. I struggle to see where they would all fit if that weren't available, even if the metering is re-imposed. Obviously Peak Cavern car park is available, with a discount on the parking charge if you visit the showcaves, but if that guy only charges ?3 instead of ?4...
 
cooleycr

cooleycr

Active member
If all else fails, lets "install" some Greater Crested Newts or some bat roosts where the parking meters are intended to be fitted and then see what happens!

Sadly I can only see that this "proposal" is in fact a foregone conclusion and that the best that we (that is cavers, climbers, walkers, cyclists, shoppers etc that visit Castleton) can persuade the DCC (as opposed to the DCC!) to increase the parking timeslots to something realistic - as in all day on the Buxton/Mam Tor road and keep it to a reasonable cost, as Phil says previously, you can currently park for ?3 in a field so who is going to pay more for an official spot...
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
There is still time to send in objections (the deadline is tomorrow; Friday 2nd September). Give solid reasons and email to:

netmanadmin@derbyshire.gov.uk

This is your chance to influence the outcome. Please do help.
 
AR

AR

Well-known member
Several of the meters on the Treak Cliff road have either been broken into or torched in the past, so I can't see that new meters would be any less prone to such attention.
 
alastairgott

alastairgott

Well-known member
AR said:
Several of the meters on the Treak Cliff road have either been broken into or torched in the past, so I can't see that new meters would be any less prone to such attention.
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Ah But they presumably want to employ some economies of scale, the more meters, the more cost effective it is to send a company to fix them all.

I read a while ago (somewhere on the internet) that DCC made a direct decision not to bother fixing the machines on the treak cliff road, but I assume that they will reinstate them.
 
adam

adam

Member
They might not necessarily reinstate them. It would probably be unwise. The machines on the Treak Cliff road are much more vulnerable to vandalism than new ones in Castleton village would be. Further, charging for parking along that section of road was pointless anyway.

I can see some logic in introducing parking charges in the centre, provided there is free parking outside. This puts centre space at a premium and theoretically reduces congestion.
 
kay

kay

Well-known member
adam said:
I can see some logic in introducing parking charges in the centre, provided there is free parking outside. This puts centre space at a premium and theoretically reduces congestion.
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A particular problem with these proposals seems to be the lack of all-day parking. The suggestion seems to be that the main car park is not adequate, and the road-side parking is to be limited to 4hrs or less.

 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Pitlamp said:
There is still time to send in objections (the deadline is tomorrow; Friday 2nd September). Give solid reasons and email to:

netmanadmin@derbyshire.gov.uk

This is your chance to influence the outcome. Please do help.
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Last chance today . . . .

(I disagree with the sentiments immediately above. There is a finite amount of roadside space to park on in / near the centre of Castleton. Whether or not the DCC is successful in inflicting this extortion, only so many vehicles can park there. Cavers having to park further away is often not practical - due to large amounts of gear having to be moved between vehicles and caving hostel - caving projects. Apart from anything else - you've all paid for that parking space already through your vehicle excise duty. I think it's pretty obvious what's really behind this proposed scheme.)
 
cooleycr

cooleycr

Active member
And that finite amount of parking space would be increased if only drivers were to learn how to park - i.e. not leave 1-2 metres front and back, the number of times I have driven around the circuit looking for a space only to be left fuming by this ignorance, if I had a Smart car I could easily park it in some of the gaps I have seen recently, (not that @ 6'4" I would easily fit in one!) I have been tempted to leave parking advice notices or parallel park bridging the gap so that the other cars cannot get out but don't wish to upset the actual locals...
 
adam

adam

Member
Pitlamp said:
Apart from anything else - you've all paid for that parking space already through your vehicle excise duty.
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Vehicle excise duty goes into general taxation not a restricted 'roads fund', so the notion that drivers own the roads because they pay for them is a bit of a fallacy.

I don't like the proposed scheme btw. It seems to aim to tie up all the available parking in the village and offer no alternative for free/long stay parking. Apart from the impact on cavers it will definitely hurt the shops. Last weekend I intended to go shopping in Keswick but sacked it off cos I couldn't find free parking. Maybe I'm just a tight bastard but I don't like paying for parking - it only encourages this sort of nonsense.
 
alastairgott

alastairgott

Well-known member
adam said:
Last weekend I intended to go shopping in Keswick but sacked it off cos I couldn't find free parking.
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Same in Kirby Lonsdale and Settle. I've ended up using a space in the booth's car park in both.

One to get a selfie with a biker where I ended up buying lunch and dinner at booth's so that's fair.

the other to get breakfast, where I just went in and bought a 40p Independent newspaper! thanks for the Car parking :)

Pitlamp was right, back in the day, it was probably a tied fund. but Adam's right now, although in leased cars they still sometimes refer to the old term of "Road Fund Licence".
 
alastairgott

alastairgott

Well-known member
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_Fund

Hypothecated apparently means pledged money by law to a specific purpose.

The Road Fund was a British Government fund designated to pay for the building and maintenance of the United Kingdom road network. Its income came originally from vehicle excise duty, until that ceased to be hypothecated for roads use in 1936, and then from government grants. It was created by the Roads Act 1920 and Finance Act 1920, and was wound up in Miscellaneous Financial Provisions Act of 1955.

The Road Fund is notable as one of the few beneficiaries of hypothecated taxation in British history, and is the root of a popular misconception that vehicle excise duty (especially when referred to as road tax) is still hypothecated. Between 1920 and 1936 the vehicle licence (tax disc) was officially known as the "Road Fund Licence", a term which is still in colloquial use today.
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Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Yeah - I've heard all the convoluted excuses about road tax supposedly not being road tax. But you have to pay the tax to have your car on the road. So that's, er, obviously road tax. Don't let them con you.

(I have absolutely no objection to paying my road tax incidentally; I get something for it in return. But I do object to getting screwed by some council for absolutely no good reason.)

The guff the DCC produced simply said the cut off date for objections is 2nd September. They'll obviously not be looking at this until Monday morning. So, as I type, I reckon you've still got just over 3 hours to get those objections in.

This is the thin end of a very nasty wedge. Nip it in the bud now - or it'll only get worse.
 
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