Caves of Castleton - 3d Survey Project
- Thread starter Moose
- Start date
nickwilliams
Well-known member
Moose
New member
A new version has been posted with the addition of the first part of Winnats Head Cave and a few other minor alterations following GPS pinpointing accurate entrance co ordinates.
As before it can be downloaded at:
http://caving.hucklow.org/CASTLETON_SURVEY/3d.htm
As before it can be downloaded at:
http://caving.hucklow.org/CASTLETON_SURVEY/3d.htm
footleg
New member
This is a fascinating data set, especially the development levels in the Peak Speedwell system.
A couple of questions:
1) There are some notable omissions (e.g. P8, Oxlow). What is the status of these? Is data being prepared? Lost? Or resurvey plans afoot?
2) The Survex file does not allow me to colour by error. So the loop closure errors are not apparent. How has this data been processed? Is this deliberate?
A couple of questions:
1) There are some notable omissions (e.g. P8, Oxlow). What is the status of these? Is data being prepared? Lost? Or resurvey plans afoot?
2) The Survex file does not allow me to colour by error. So the loop closure errors are not apparent. How has this data been processed? Is this deliberate?
Moose
New member
When I started this I was moderately happy with the Peak/Speedwell data but the rest of the Castleton caves was going to be a full on mission to get hold of the data.
I have got a good chance of getting data for P8, remainder of Winnats Head, Blue John, Christmas Swallet and Snelslow but the rest of it will need resurveying including Nettle, Maskhill, Oxlow, Eldon, the remaining swallets and an awful lot of smaller stuff. Unless it's out there somewhere?
As for the errors, they haven't been omitted deliberately, I have them in the usual .err file and am happy to post these too. Not sure if it's a mac thing but I'm wasn't aware that you could view 'colour by error'. Perhaps someone can enlighten me on this one?
I have got a good chance of getting data for P8, remainder of Winnats Head, Blue John, Christmas Swallet and Snelslow but the rest of it will need resurveying including Nettle, Maskhill, Oxlow, Eldon, the remaining swallets and an awful lot of smaller stuff. Unless it's out there somewhere?
As for the errors, they haven't been omitted deliberately, I have them in the usual .err file and am happy to post these too. Not sure if it's a mac thing but I'm wasn't aware that you could view 'colour by error'. Perhaps someone can enlighten me on this one?
SamT
Moderator
re - P8/Nettle/Eldon etc
Does JB not hold any of this data... In his CaveMap program perhaps. Im sure you've already asked, but I'd be surprised if he doesn't.
Would it be worth publishing the owners of the survey if you can find out who's listed on the survey...
e.g. "Eldon Hole after surveys by EPC and DCC"
I'll have a word with Jules as he went through the Eldon library a year or so ago, and ask if he's saw anything resembling survey data
Does JB not hold any of this data... In his CaveMap program perhaps. Im sure you've already asked, but I'd be surprised if he doesn't.
Would it be worth publishing the owners of the survey if you can find out who's listed on the survey...
e.g. "Eldon Hole after surveys by EPC and DCC"
I'll have a word with Jules as he went through the Eldon library a year or so ago, and ask if he's saw anything resembling survey data
footleg
New member
Moose said:
Normally, if you have any loops in your survey data, then Survex will output the error data in the .err file, and also embed it in the .3d file so you can select the menu option in the viewer to colour by error. Maybe you are processing the data with an old version of Survex which did not put this data into the .3d file?
We have been using the 'latest' development builds of Survex for 2 years now without problems (I don't know why the developers insist on still calling it a development version and hide it away on the website). This also supports passage dimension data, so you can view solid cave passages where LRUD data has been entered. Really useful.
Download from here: http://survex.com/software/1.1.12/
graham
New member
Having checked a few of the data files here, this morning, Aven 1.1.12 isn't allowing me to view the colour by error option on any of them. I agree that this version has been around for some time, but it does still seem somewhat "buggy"
Aven is still way nicer to use than just about every other similar viewer around, though.
Aven is still way nicer to use than just about every other similar viewer around, though.
graham
New member
SamT said:
I'm building a somewhat similar model, at present, which will (hopefully!) pull in data from a lot of different clubs/surveyors. In order to ensure that full acknowledgement is given, I am compiling a spreadsheet listing all known contributors to the model. This will then be published alongside the model.
Moose
New member
Ok chaps, it would seem that I have indeed been using an older version of survex (1.0.39), having just downloaded version 1.1.12 I can now see what I'm missing out on.
I'll need to spend a bit of time fiddling with this but I'll re process the data and post an updated version. I assume that version 1.1.12 is in a mac format too? (Currently I'm experimenting on a PC but all the work I usually do is on a Mac)
Publishing all the survey details is an excellent idea and will be a great thing to include.
I have contacted JSB and I think that I have all the data that he has.
I'll need to spend a bit of time fiddling with this but I'll re process the data and post an updated version. I assume that version 1.1.12 is in a mac format too? (Currently I'm experimenting on a PC but all the work I usually do is on a Mac)
Publishing all the survey details is an excellent idea and will be a great thing to include.
I have contacted JSB and I think that I have all the data that he has.
footleg
New member
graham said:
I think the reason you are not able to Colour by Error is because the .3d files have not been processed with a version of Survex which supports it, so the viewer is not buggy, it is just not able to show data that it has not got! If the Survex data files (the plain text .svx files) were processed with Survex 1.1.12 then you would be able to view the resulting .3d files coloured by error. Note however that these .3d files will not be possible to view using older versions of Survex. So everyone needs to upgrade to this version of Survex.
An alternative viewer for these .3d files is the Loch viewer which comes with Therion. This does a great job of rendering 3D models of caves from Survex output where the LRUD data has been included.
I don't think a Mac build of this latest development version of Survex is provided. You could try asking on the Survex mailing list to see if someone can build one. Otherwise you will need to generate the output for uploading on the website using a Windows machine. You can still work on the raw data files on the Mac in between times however using the older version of Survex.
Some examples:
Some loops coloured by error in Aven (the Survex viewer)
Coloured by height with 3D passages using Aven (the Survex viewer)
Coloured by height with 3D passages using Loch (the Therion viewer)
graham
New member
Just tried to process one Survex file to generate a new 3d using the latest version and I think I want to kill someone.
The file I chose was the Little Neath River Cave, much of which was surveyed in the 1960s and 70s but which was entered into Survex earlier this year, including all appropriate data. The latest version doesn't like dates earlier than 1970.
The file I chose was the Little Neath River Cave, much of which was surveyed in the 1960s and 70s but which was entered into Survex earlier this year, including all appropriate data. The latest version doesn't like dates earlier than 1970.
ChrisJC
Well-known member
graham said:The latest version doesn't like dates earlier than 1970.
Of course not, the epoch was Jan 1st, 1970. Nothing from before then matters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_time
Chris.
graham
New member
ChrisJC said:graham said:The latest version doesn't like dates earlier than 1970.
Of course not, the epoch was Jan 1st, 1970. Nothing from before then matters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_time
Chris.
Not only did prevision versions cope, but some of our most reliable data comes the period 1948-1951 BC (Before Computer).
Moose
New member
Yep, that's absolutely correct, I've just been playing with the model on a PC and everything that Footleg writes about is spot on.
I'll upload a newer version later this week. Soon you'll all be able to look at the errors easily.
As for Survex 1.1.12 for Mac, I'm working on that !!!!
I'll upload a newer version later this week. Soon you'll all be able to look at the errors easily.
As for Survex 1.1.12 for Mac, I'm working on that !!!!