Caves of the Peak District

[bubba]

As everything I have written is self-published using POD, then strictly speaking, the books were permanently out of print from the day they were published (or so I have read somewhere). Each small batch I order is another print run. When they are all sold, they are out of print again. I would be seriously p155ed off if someone started posting them up on a website thinking it was OK because they were "out of print".

Well that's a totally different scenario - the COTPD wasn't being printed on demand, it just stayed out of print for what is currently almost 19 years.

Anyway, I'm sure the new one will solve everything if it's ever published...

 

[bubba]

But you are removing from them the incentive to do another print run, if they so choose. Not so relevant for a book with out of date information though.

Well how long were they going to wait? 20 years? 30 years? There was never going to be another print run.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I was making a general comment - each book will have different circumstances.

 

[Peter Burgess]

But you are removing from them the incentive to do another print run, if they so choose. Not so relevant for a book with out of date information though.

Well how long were they going to wait? 20 years? 30 years? There was never going to be another print run.

Maybe the question should not be "is it OK to put an out of print book online" but "who should decide whether it is OK to put an out of print book online". I say it is the author's choice.

 

[Clive G]

And the reason that the information is available between two covers is that  ONE SINGLE PERSON has spent hundreds or thousands of hours collating, refining, checking, amending, expanding, updating and presenting that information.

. . .

Ah, but that's not a quotation from me is it? ! ! ! 

You've changed the words and put your revision in capitals for emphasis!

Here's what I actually said:

. . .

And the reason that the information is available between two covers is that someone has spent hundreds or thousands of hours collating, refining, checking, amending, expanding, updating and presenting that information.

. . .

'Someone' could be a single person or a whole team of authors or collaborators/contributors - which is why I chose the word carefully in the way that I did. I've used the singular and plural senses (for confirmation) in the paragraph which follows immediately: "Provided the author(s) is/are good at their job, then you will be able to rely on the content."

However, just putting information together ad hoc from numerous different sources isn't necessarily going to produce a meaningful or coherent overview. And writing a paragraph or two to update details of new passage found in any one particular cave isn't going to be sufficient work to pull a considered guidebook together.

Doing things like this (and getting away with it) helps give UKCaving the name that it has amongst a number of respected cavers - but I'm happy to continue posting, where I think I can help improve things! 

 

[bubba]

Doing things like this (and getting away with it) helps give UKCaving the name that it has amongst a number of respected cavers - but I'm happy to continue posting, where I think I can help improve things! 

What exactly are we 'getting away with'?  Oh and thanks for gracing us with your presence....  For  the record I couldn't give a f*** what sort of name this site has amongst your 'respected cavers'. 

 

[Peter Burgess]

Well said, Bubba. Some of the most respected cavers (by me that is) are members of this forum, and some are not. Some are well-known throughout the UK and some are not. What respect does someone who thinks UKCaving is 'beneath them' deserve? What relevance could it possibly have? Respect is a personal thing, and I'm sure we would all come up with different lists if asked.

 

[Mark]

Ah, but that's not a quotation from me is it? ! ! ! 

You've changed the words and put your revision in capitals for emphasis!

I think it was a genuine mistake on Sam's part, I think he accidently pressed CAPSLOCK when he really meant to press delete.

Doing things like this (and getting away with it) helps give UKCaving the name that it has amongst a number of respected cavers - but I'm happy to continue posting, where I think I can help improve things! 

As a Respected Derbyshire Caver I am glad you approve of UKcaving's moderators policy of being able to do what the f*** they want, or did I read that wrong,

If you don't like it stick to whinging in the Welsh section

 

[Clive G]

. . .

I think it was a genuine mistake on Sam's part, I think he accidently . . .



. . . I am glad you approve of UKcaving's moderators policy of being able to do what the f*** they want, or did I read that wrong,

If you don't like it stick to whinging in the Welsh section

W H A T ? !  :thumbsdown:

 

[Clive G]

. . .

As a Respected Derbyshire Caver I am glad you approve of UKcaving's moderators policy of being able to do what the f*** they want, or did I read that wrong,

If you don't like it stick to whinging in the Welsh section

OK, then the work I was going to do (for free) to try and track down a copy of the Gautries film and obtain permission for it to be used by the diggers currently pushing the new breakthrough in the cave is on HOLD.

I've objected to having my words misquoted - quite reasonably.

Unchecked behaviour has caused a number of people to consider that UKCaving should be closed down for being so negative and giving cavers and caving a bad name as a result. Whether you choose to prove them wrong, right or simply just don't care . . . is entirely up to you.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Closed down by whom? Really, Clive, what planet are you on? If you think UKCaving is 'bad', I suggest you go and check out a few other message boards! This one, despite some pretty daft posts at times, is a very well-behaved and intelligent community!

 

[Turner]

. . .

As a Respected Derbyshire Caver I am glad you approve of UKcaving's moderators policy of being able to do what the f*** they want, or did I read that wrong,

If you don't like it stick to whinging in the Welsh section

OK, then the work I was going to do (for free) to try and track down a copy of the Gautries film and obtain permission for it to be used by the diggers currently pushing the new breakthrough in the cave is on HOLD.

I've objected to having my words misquoted - quite reasonably.

Unchecked behaviour has caused a number of people to consider that UKCaving should be closed down for being so negative and giving cavers and caving a bad name as a result. Whether you choose to prove them wrong, right or simply just don't care . . . is entirely up to you.

you not going to share your sweeties either??? get with it ffs........

 

[SamT]

Oh for fucks sake.... not the old 'moderators can do what they want and get away with it' bollocks.

Anyone can quote someone on this forum and change the contents. Its nowt to do with being a moderator. I did it deliberately (and used caps to make sure people could see it)

I WAS TRYING TO MAKE A VALID BLEEDING POINT

i... fucking ... e.......

that it is indeed a hell of a lot of work for one OR TWO OR THREE OR EVEN t.....e.....n people...

but its no effort for the thousands out there if they have the ability to contribute to something.

I could write all there is to know about Claires cave.. or Durham edge swallet in an hour or so... but it would be right ball ache for someone else to be bothered to go out, find them, explore them, speak to the right people about who dug what when etc.

Jesus wept.... I dont know why I bother sometimes.. Clive, its totally pedantic, paranoid and lets face it, utterly useless whiny posts like your last couple that turn people right off UKcaving.. and I don't blame them.

It could be a fantastic resource and some may say it still is (just!) if it wasn't for all the fucking winging (and White-interest-lackingtons endless stream of shite... Bubba - will you just go ahead and put him on a 'approved  posts only' status and we can only approve caving related posts.

 

[NigR]

If you don't like it stick to whinging in the Welsh section

No, don't say that! Be nice to him, then he'll stay here.

 

[owd git]

:-\

 

[Kevlar]

So, yeah, books. Great aren't they.

 

[bubba]

Unchecked behaviour has caused a number of people to consider that UKCaving should be closed down for being so negative and giving cavers and caving a bad name as a result.

That is one of the most ridiculous things that's ever been posted here. Just who is going to close it down? People can consider it all they like, it's not happening until I want it to happen.

As for people being negative - yes, there is a lot of negative vibes on here. That's a result of the way the community has developed. For example ukbouldering.com is generally a fun, happy place with all round good vibes - the same moderation policies, etc have been applied there as they have here. Perhaps it's just how cavers are?

As for giving caving a bad name...well, if cavers give caving a bad name then what can you do? Why not go start www.nicecaversonly.co.uk or something?

OK, then the work I was going to do (for free) to try and track down a copy of the Gautries film and obtain permission for it to be used by the diggers currently pushing the new breakthrough in the cave is on HOLD.

What a bizzarre little dummy-spit - have those diggers offended you or something? I can see no connection between that and Sam misquoting you.

 

[mulucaver]

Now then children, just count to ten

 

[jasonbirder]

a number of people to consider that UKCaving should be closed down

What the f*ck...
By who...and on behalf of who...

 

[graham]

a number of people to consider that UKCaving should be closed down

What the f*ck...
By who...and on behalf of who...

Pompous prats who haven't worked out how to register, probably.