Climbing Avens

[Pipster]

Suppose your wandering down a passage when you come across aven. It's high. It's wide. It's not free-climbable.

For some reason, you wish to see whats up there because*...
1) its never been ascended before and is a possible lead.
2) your looking for another surface connection.
3) of pure curiosity.
4) your bored and have nothing better to do.
* delete as appropriate.

What methods are used to climb such obstacles? What are the considerations? Are they climbed by experienced climbers? What kit is used?

 

[jasonbirder]

Got anything particular in mind mate

 

[Pipster]

hehe, just curious

 

[docfunk]

Big fat bolts.

 

[francis]

I am getting stuff together to build a Stick Up clone. I think it seems like one of the better ways to climb upwards

http://forums.caves.org/viewtopic.php?t=4688

MEASUREMENTSmeasurements are to the center of the hole)
Bottom Hole--1"
Middle Hole--8 1/2"
1st Hole at Top--17 3/4"
2nd Hole at Top--19 1/4"
3rd Hole at Top with rope--20 5/8"
Total Length of bar with out end caps---21 1/4"

The two holes under the rope are not needed, they are from a previous design before they had the rope attached.

I made a drawing yesterday with metric units instead of inches (hope I got the conversion right?).

Francis

 

[Dep]

Never seen it done - but what springs to mind is a maypole.

The 'Stick-up' will surely involve trashing the rock with so many holes drilled?

 

[Pipster]

Hmmm, two very different solutions by the sounds of it!

The Stick Up sounds very much like a method I'd expected to hear about, although the "Stick" piece I wasn't expecting. Thanks for the info francis It was good to see some detail and diagrams to try and understand it - it looks quite technical! Good luck with the project.  Are you gonna post some pics of your finished device, and some of it being used? Good point by Dep though it would trash the rock, but more to the point I guess if the rock is heavily calcited maybe you couldn't bolt into it?

Now the maypole idea sounds intriguing - dunno if I've got the wrong end of the stick here, but do you literally mean a maypole which people dance around?! I'm guessing here, but: is a rope attached to the top, its then positioned securely (how?), and you simply srt up it? or have I got that totally wrong! heh.

Have you ever heard of anything being climbed using trad rock climbing?

 

[Dep]

A maypole is a lightweight pole - maybe in sections - possibly a bit of lashing.
It must be strong along its axial length.
Two light ropes from the top are held by assistants to keep it all in place. Lean it against the wall, pull/hold the two guy-lines tight so it can't slide sideways and then ascend the third SRT rope to the top of the pole and hopefully your goal. Once up there the rope can be refixed to a better or new belay.

That's the theory - but get the finer details from someone who has actually done it - I have only read about it.

I _think_ this is how the first people got up to the ladder dig extension in GB (TLCITUK)?
...and Maypole Inlet in OFD?

 

[gus horsley]

I've done a bit of maypoling up avens (and rises in mines).  We used scaffold poles but there are limitations, such as height of aven (above 30ft and they're not much use) and the nature of the passage below (ie if it's an aven over a crawl you can't get scaffold poles up).  We had a an attachment at the top for a krab to hang a ladder from and then a couple of ropes to prevent it from rolling around.  Then a brave victim goes up, has a quick look around and if it looks promising they will atttach the ladder to something more substantial so that others can have a peek.

I think bolts are a better proposition, easier to carry, etc and removable if you want to keep others out of your extension.

never tried a Stick Up but it sounds intriguing.

 

[paul]

FWIW, Titan was climbed using bolts - but then you would have needed a VERY LONG Maypole to climb it!

 

[caverholic]

All people need for climbing avens is a moose!(Dave Nixon - the guy who climbed titan) at 6ft7 (i think) and arms to match.

I think that maypoling still has it merits but its hard to get them to places where most cave climbs are. With lightweight drills and longer lasting battery power, aid climbing is taking over.

You could always try the new gekko tapes being developed they should speed things up.

 

[Dep]

.. or a human pyramid!

 

[SamT]

I think Im right in thinking that "the abysse" in Rowter hole was free climbed by mark wright at about E5.

Eldon hole was free climbed (with bolt protection) at about 7b+ by Simon Nadin and GG has been free climbed too at about E3 (I think)

 

[graham]

I think Im right in thinking that "the abysse" in Rowter hole was free climbed by mark wright at about E5.

Eldon hole was free climbed (with bolt protection) at about 7b+ by Simon Nadin and GG has been free climbed too at about E3 (I think)

Wot? No-one's free climbed Titan yet? 

 

[gus horsley]

GG has been free climbed too at about E3 (I think)

GG Rider E3 5c, 8 pitches with 10 points of aid. 1989 NPC.

Personally I wouldn't like to attempt anything above VS 4c underground and soloing would be a much lower grade.

 

[bru]

trad climbing an aven would be fun if the gear was good / got to be better than bolting the hell out of it...

climbing GG would be awesome, must keep practicing!  btw gus you are soooo close to being a hero

 

[Pitlamp]

Gus - I think you're almost (but not quite) right about the GG free climb. The first climb out of it was actually done in August 1972 by Roger Baxter Jones and partner (see CPC Journal 4 (6) p.316).  They used a few points of aid.

The NPC ascent you refer to was done by Dave Hetherington and Paul Eastwood and I'm almost certain that they eliminated all aid, and that theirs was the first truly free ascent.

Loads of other shafts have been free climbed over the years; it used to be a commonplace activity in the late 70's and early 80's. I remember Rob Palmer and Pete Gray abseiling into the bottom of Alum Pot, calmly pulling their ropes down on the way, then free climbing out via the Dollytubs. I've done several of the larger Dales pitches free myself but never bothered recording them (as far as I remember). And don't forget Mike Wooding's unroped free ascent of Bar Pot when he got detackled on many years ago.

If you want to climb an aven to see what's at the top there is a range of techniques available. If you use a scaling pole there is a school of thought that a ladder and double (dynamic!) lifeline are better than SRT because it's simpler to climb off the top if the pole ends before the climb does. Hand bolting is maybe preferable for short pitches with a long carry but battery drills are faster. You can enhance your bolt spacing using bolting platforms and the like but my own view is that if you have a decent drill and plenty of battery power then a bolting platform is unnecessarily faffy.

If you do have a particular aven in mind I'm sure there's plenty of experienced aven climbers who would give you advice.

 

[Dep]

Hire a free-climbing loony for the day!

 

[Pipster]

Cool, thanks for the info guys. Thats satsifyingly filled a gap in the knowledge bank.

Its interesting to see some recorded climbing routes down these ere pots n shafts - the 7b+ in Eldon Hole is waaaaaaaaay beyond me! Tiz amazing to think that GG has been free climbed; found this on wikipedia about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaping_Gill

 

[SamT]

the 7b+ in Eldon Hole is waaaaaaaaay beyond me!

beyond most people these days since cavers nicked all the hangers almost straight away. 

quel suprise