County Pot ropes
- Thread starter hannahb
- Start date
Jon
Member
Advance Notice
Why?
They were left in to facilitate emergency exit from the system without first rigging those pitches, while Wretched Rabbit was unavailable, on the understanding they would be removed once the Wretched Rabbit work was completed (see other threads on the forum).
Wretched Rabbit is open again, so the ropes can be removed.
Generally speaking the local practice is not to leave ropes on routes typically negotiated using SRT.
Wretched Rabbit is open again, so the ropes can be removed.
Generally speaking the local practice is not to leave ropes on routes typically negotiated using SRT.
Jon
Member
I personally quite liked having them there, made trips a lot easier with less faff at the start or end, depending on what you were doing. I think it's a shame they're gone.
Why is this cave different to all the other caves that have in-situ ropes in? I'm not massively bothered, btw, just curious. If I or someone else was to do a lot of trips in County over winter would people object to ropes being left in for a period?
Why is this cave different to all the other caves that have in-situ ropes in? I'm not massively bothered, btw, just curious. If I or someone else was to do a lot of trips in County over winter would people object to ropes being left in for a period?
testgerbil
Member
I must admit, the fixed ropes in County have been really useful over the last couple of years, but I can understand the rationale for asking people to rig their own.
I wouldn't see a problem with someone leaving their ropes rigged on a pitch for a number of months, unless it made rigging along side it awkward; divers leave pitches rigged for years (e.g. Valley Entrance). But this being the internet, I'm sure someone will have an issue with you leaving your ropes on there!
I wouldn't see a problem with someone leaving their ropes rigged on a pitch for a number of months, unless it made rigging along side it awkward; divers leave pitches rigged for years (e.g. Valley Entrance). But this being the internet, I'm sure someone will have an issue with you leaving your ropes on there!
I wonder what the reaction would be if someone fitted Via Ferrata type staples on the first pitch in County. . . . .
Ian P
Active member
I disliked seeing the ropes there and am glad they are being removed. People who choose to rig the pitches and climbs for their own passage can now do so unencumbered by tat. I see no need for ropes to be left in County Pot long term.
I would be one of the people objecting to private ropes being left behind between trips without good justification. Are you seriously unable or unwilling to rig County Pot on your way in? Or verify your through trip exit is rigged before committing? Its something fellow cavers have been doing for many years without an issue.
I just don't want to see or have to deal with your accumulated tat and abandoned tackle. Its not why I choose to go caving and it detracts from the experience for me. This is not 'different' to other potholes, since most caves should be left clean most of the time. This is the default state and one that has served cavers in the area well for many years.
You offered your view and now I'm sharing mine. This is not about being 'the internet' or disagreeing for the sake of it. I understand there are different points of view, and different people have different needs and desires. We are just a group of people with a common interest sharing a valuable natural resource and trying to get along.
I would be one of the people objecting to private ropes being left behind between trips without good justification. Are you seriously unable or unwilling to rig County Pot on your way in? Or verify your through trip exit is rigged before committing? Its something fellow cavers have been doing for many years without an issue.
I just don't want to see or have to deal with your accumulated tat and abandoned tackle. Its not why I choose to go caving and it detracts from the experience for me. This is not 'different' to other potholes, since most caves should be left clean most of the time. This is the default state and one that has served cavers in the area well for many years.
You offered your view and now I'm sharing mine. This is not about being 'the internet' or disagreeing for the sake of it. I understand there are different points of view, and different people have different needs and desires. We are just a group of people with a common interest sharing a valuable natural resource and trying to get along.
Beardy
Member
Ian,
I'm not so sure that it's so black and white.
It seems odd that it's ok to have Fall Pot, Stake Pot, Stop Pot, Wretched Rabbit, 88ft pitch, Ochre Pot, Echo Pot, Waterfall Passage, Canuck Climb Wilf Taylors, Easter Grotto, Spillane, Charybdis, etc.... rigged
But then argue that ropes in County Pot detract from the experience.
Lots of pitches have been permanently rigged for the last thirty years plus so perhaps being unrigged is not per se the default for the area.
I guess I'm ambivalent about County as I'd try and climb out, if the ropes weren't there, but I guess a bit of tatt on the pitches might make a hospital visit less likely
B
Beardy - I totally agree it is not black and white - that's why these types of discussions occur and finding consensus is tricky.
I presented my personal opinion that the County Pot ropes detracted from my visits to that location. I wasn't 'arguing' a case or comparing to other potholes.
Regarding those other locations you listed; not all of those locations require fixed ropes and I would be happy to see the number of fixed ropes reduced over time, not increase. But I am happy to see each location treated according to its own circumstances, not a one size fits all rule.
You suggest the presence of tat makes hospital visits less likely, from which readers might infer the absence of tat makes hospital visits more likely. I disagree. If you fail to ensure your exit is rigged and subsequently choose to climb out without adequate protection and happen to fall and injure yourself, that is due solely to your choices and actions.
I have fallen climbing a pitch before and ended up in hospital. I saw a knotted handline and assumed it was a climb rather than the next pitch. That was down to my poor judgement, not the presence or absence of the fixed rope. I am hopeful you and everyone else stays out of hospital through careful application of better judgement and sound caving practice. Tis my understanding that taking and rigging your own tackle _is_ sound caving practice. Which leads to...
My 'default for the area' referred to the wider Dales scene being to rig and derig pitches yourself. I believe this is true for the majority of potholers and the majority of potholes. Its certainly what I expect and would like to see continue. Happy caving....
I presented my personal opinion that the County Pot ropes detracted from my visits to that location. I wasn't 'arguing' a case or comparing to other potholes.
Regarding those other locations you listed; not all of those locations require fixed ropes and I would be happy to see the number of fixed ropes reduced over time, not increase. But I am happy to see each location treated according to its own circumstances, not a one size fits all rule.
You suggest the presence of tat makes hospital visits less likely, from which readers might infer the absence of tat makes hospital visits more likely. I disagree. If you fail to ensure your exit is rigged and subsequently choose to climb out without adequate protection and happen to fall and injure yourself, that is due solely to your choices and actions.
I have fallen climbing a pitch before and ended up in hospital. I saw a knotted handline and assumed it was a climb rather than the next pitch. That was down to my poor judgement, not the presence or absence of the fixed rope. I am hopeful you and everyone else stays out of hospital through careful application of better judgement and sound caving practice. Tis my understanding that taking and rigging your own tackle _is_ sound caving practice. Which leads to...
My 'default for the area' referred to the wider Dales scene being to rig and derig pitches yourself. I believe this is true for the majority of potholers and the majority of potholes. Its certainly what I expect and would like to see continue. Happy caving....
Jon
Member
It makes a trip that involves County just that bit easier it those particular pitches are pre-rigged. To answer your question, yes I can rig County and I am able.
The "accumulated tat" comment makes it sound like there's loads of ropes on those pitches, rather than just one rope on each pitch.
Just out of interest, would you like to see the handlines in Wretched Rabbit permanently removed?
testgerbil
Member
I guess it's better to assume a pitch is not going to be permanently rigged; from now on if I found a rope on County, I'd assume it was someone elses and there's no guarantee it would be there when i got back; better to rig it again than end up having to free-climb or head out through Wretched Rabbit.
With such a popular entrance though, the pitchhead might end up looking like a spider's web with everyone rigging their own!
With such a popular entrance though, the pitchhead might end up looking like a spider's web with everyone rigging their own!
I'm sorry - my comment about 'your' tat was a bit pointed. I could have used the phrase 'other peoples' tat. But generally yes if there is a rope on Pitch 1, Poetic Justice, Pierce's Passage, Trident etc that would constitute an accumulation
Yes I think that would be an improvement
testgerbil
Member
The latest CNCC newsletter has a piece on their party line for leaving ropes in a cave for a long period of time: https://cncc.org.uk/file/7a91fc99-126d-60fc-de55-2a92da4ba2fa
that was already the case. if you didnt rig it then it isnt yours and might be removed. its one of the failings of leaving in situ ropes
testgerbil
Member
Of course, this is the norm - and now we know not to rely on the fixed ropes in County anymore!
JoshW
Well-known member
booo! it would make life so much easierPage 6 appears to provide the answer to that question
Stu
Active member
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