"Emergency Climbing Rope"

[Pitlamp]

Don Robinson's excellent little 1967 booklet: "Know the game: Potholing and Caving" has some advice on this. Page 4 has a drawing of a "well equipped caver" with a "waist length" wrapped around his belly. He advocates that all cavers include this item in their caving gear and on page 10 he elaborates thus:

"Waist Length". 8 ft of No.3 nylon rope or 1" wide climber's nylon webbing. Used mostly as a loop or sling in conjunction with the Karabiner A number of these lengths tied together would make an emergency rope. Invaluable in cave rescue work.

When I was a very young child and keen on trying caving, this booklet was my "bible". When I did manage to find a way to go caving I dutifully wore such a waist length for several years and it did indeed come in very useful on several occasions when unexpected things happened.

JAshley73 isn't the first person to contemplate the benefits of carrying small emergency ropes / slings. But he raises a good point which seems to have been forgotten in the mists of time.

Incidentally, if ever folk spot a copy of Don Robinson's booklet in a second hand book shop, snap it up. It's a fascinating snapshot into how caving was done in the mid 60s (before my time). The many diagrams are beautifully drawn and much of the advice in it still applies, even if today's equipment looks very different. Don was a prominent member of the Upper Wharfedale Fell Rescue Association and really knew his stuff.

 

[Benfool]

Looks like a swaygo to me

Home - Swaygo Gear

Refreshingly Simple Gear for Extraordinary Needs Engineering for Limitless Adventure Swaygo Gear’s passion is to make gear that goes above and beyond expectations without being complicated. Engineering products for the essentials, not all the extras. Gear that you can count on in the most...

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Yep, its a Swaygo - they're ace!

For your interest Pitlamp - my Swaygo has been through a shallow sump (The one at the end of Joint Effort in Speedwell) with a drill in it. It didn't leak.....

B

 

[Pitlamp]

Hm, they look interesting (for a number of reasons).

Would love to have a look at that pack sometime when paths are likely to cross?

 

[Benfool]

yeah no worries - next time we're likely to be in the same place I'll bring it along!

B

 

[Pitlamp]

Star!

 

[Chocolate fireguard]

Don Robinson's excellent little 1967 booklet: "Know the game: Potholing and Caving" has some advice on this. Page 4 has a drawing of a "well equipped caver" with a "waist length" wrapped around his belly. He advocates that all cavers include this item in their caving gear and on page 10 he elaborates thus:

"Waist Length". 8 ft of No.3 nylon rope or 1" wide climber's nylon webbing. Used mostly as a loop or sling in conjunction with the Karabiner A number of these lengths tied together would make an emergency rope. Invaluable in cave rescue work.

That was a very posh waist length.
When I got one, mainly because I was hopeless at tying a bowline for my lifeline, it was a 15 or 20 ft length of washing line with a krab at the front.
Even I could secure it with a reef knot (or possibly a granny knot, but with all those turns it didn't matter) and do an overhand in the lifeline.

 

[asheshouse]

Used to find a 6m length of 8mm useful, mainly as a haul rope to pull kit or provide assistance on short climbs.

 

[JAshley73]

Never seen a bag like that; could you point me at where they grow? It looks like it has the makings of a "Scoff bag" (which is something that CDG members will understand).

It is a Swaygo pack - the "large" version, whatever it's actually called.

Personally, it's a love-hate relationship. The pack itself is extremely rugged, sleek, easy to clean, and so on. It's very thoughtfully designed, and in the podcast below, founder/maker Scott Mcrea explains a lot of the pack's evolution & design. Also at the bottom, is a review by Derek Bristol as well...



The straps are EXTREMELY annoying. The way the strap routes through the top grommet, and then through the carabiner causes A LOT of grief. Eventually the strap will "move" and get un-even. But because the strap is relatively stiff in the opening, you can't quickly re-center it. I got so frustrated by it, that I put a stitch at the top/middle of the strap, to keep it from shifting, and causing un-even lengths. (See picture below...)

It is expensive. About $170 USD for the large version. I had some extra cash at the time, and decided to just buy it whilst I could. Then, the carabiners that it comes with are junky chinese-specials. So another $50 USD for (4) DMM wire-gates to replace them. As you can see, this is shaping up to be one expensive cave pack...

As mentioned, it's extremely rugged. And as waterproof as a thing can be, inside a cave. When lightly packed, it does get very thin, especially if you squeeze the air out as you close it. And I've heard of people "filling them with air" as they close them, and floating on them through swimming passages.

It does hold a moderate amount of gear, but I'd never attempt to stuff 10m (40-feet) of 9mm or 10mm rope into it. Something like that, I'd coil it and wear it.

Swaygo Sink Pack - Large - Swaygo Gear

Waterproof, durable, amazingly low profile backpack, designed for adventure. This large sized Swaygo Sink Pack is made from a super-durable polyurethane. A must for caving!

swaygogear.com

Episode 26: Scott McCrea

Swaygo founder Scott McCrea joins me to talk about his caving life. From the discovery and exploration of Cyclops Cave to his work with the NCRC, plus a big update on the Swaygo saga.

www.podomatic.com

 

[JAshley73]

Regarding the original topic, I'm thinking at this point of...

-50-60 feet of "rope" 6-8mm
-8-10 feet of "cord" 4mm-ish for a footloop, or prussick
-OR- Small dyneema sling for a footloop, makeshift belt/harness, or anchor?
-Petzl Tibloc & screw-locker (Already have them.)

Seems like that won't take up too much space in the pack, and paired with some imagination, could be very capable in tricky situations.

 

[Pitlamp]

Thanks for the useful information JAshley73.

 

[langcliffe]

Regarding the original topic, I'm thinking at this point of...

-50-60 feet of "rope" 6-8mm
-8-10 feet of "cord" 4mm-ish for a footloop, or prussick
-OR- Small dyneema sling for a footloop, makeshift belt/harness, or anchor?
-Petzl Tibloc & screw-locker (Already have them.)

Seems like that won't take up too much space in the pack, and paired with some imagination, could be very capable in tricky situations.

Too much for my modest hand bag!

I take a Tibloc and oval karabiner when SRTing. I was once obliged to come up the bottom pitch of Diccan using it with a sling for a foot loop. It was a sobering experience, having to make sure I didn't drop the Tibloc at the rebelays. But we learn our lessons, and the Tibloc is now firmly attached to the carabiner with a thin cord.

 

[Steve Clark]

On a recent CNCC workshop, I think the basic pitch head rescue one, it was suggested to carry two useful bits :

A 2.4m length of 8mm tied with a scaffold knot onto a small HMS pear shaped crab. The beauty of this is the way it can be stowed double, doubled up and knotted so it’s about the size of a quick draw. I’ve used this for loads of things, but the intent is that it can very quickly make a 2:1 to take the tension out of a pitch rope to start a haul. Works as a deviation, or a sling for a natural. Can quickly fashion a loop for awkward climbs. Handy for lowering sideways from a big swing. I made a chest harness out of it one day (don’t ask!). Lowering/securing camera peli cases in awkward spots.

Other thing was an 8-10m length of 8mm dropped in the bottom of a bag. Takes up no space at all. Handline, extending a pitch rope, approach rope for pull-throughs.

 

[andrewmcleod]

I often have 15m of 8mm. Good for belaying, handlines, unexpected traverses rigged on naturals, even SRT as required. 10m would still be very useful.

8mm rope is considerably denser than 10mm as it bends more so the bag ends up with more rope and less air in. A bag full of 8mm rope weighs rather more than a bag of 10mm rope.

 

[Cantclimbtom]

JAshley, if you going somewhere needing SRT and bringing kids/family unless you are being lead by some qualified instructor, the buck stops with you!
The Petzl micro traxion on an oval locking carabiner and pulley on another oval, like Steve Clarke 's picture above is IMHO invaluable (and having practised beforehand). Chances are you won't need it - but if you do...

I've carried them as emergency kit and found it useful on a couple of occasions but actually needed it on one occasion, unfortunately someone much heavier than a kid (the fat ****! 😁). It made the difference between needing cave rescue call out and group self-rescue. If I was doing any SRT with someone inexperienced or my son (can't convince either daughter to come).. I wouldn't leave home without it.

Wholeheartedly endorse Steve's photo!

 

[JAshley73]

JAshley, if you going somewhere needing SRT and bringing kids/family unless you are being lead by some qualified instructor, the buck stops with you!

We'll do some SRT, but this stuff isn't really geared toward SRT stuff. It's more for "regular" caving trips where we get somewhere a little tricky, and have a "gee, wouldn't it be nice if...." moment.

(Of course, it would also be there on SRT trips as well...)

 

[hyweldavies]

Back in the day, my various caving "how to" books from the library talk about each caver
having a "waist length" of number whatever hawser laid climbing rope. This would be wound round the waist and kept in place with a crab. It doubled as a belay belt (before belay belts were a thing) and also as a handy bit of rope. Even when I started caving in the 70 I don't remember many people (or any) people doing this. It's not a bad idea though. I tend to have a couple of 2m diameter slings and a couple of crabs worn bandolier style, but a length of 8mm wrapped round the waist as a sort of cummerbund isn't a bad idea. You'd have to accurately work out how many multiples of (ahem) 34" it needed to be be so it would stay in place

 

[Pitlamp]

Delighted to learn it's not just me that took note of that advice "back in the day". (see my post above of Friday 10th Jan at 11:19 ).

 

[JAshley73]

Update. I went to our local shop, and had the employee help measure off a 50' length of 7mm rope. Errrr, that was pretty bulky, so we measured off 40', and it looked much more manageable. I added a 120cm technora sling as well. So as of this moment anyway, the emergency "wouldn't it be nice if" kit consists of...

-40' of 7mm static rope. (A.K.A 10m of ø.284” rope)
-120cm Dyneema sling (47-1/4" ish...)
-Petzl Sm'D screw-lock carabiner.
-Petzl Tibloc

And as it relates to fitting all that junk in my pack, photos of the aforementioned Swaygo "Large" pack. Shown loaded, and with it's contents on display. For scale is a 12" ruler. (A.K.A. 304.8mm) Also included for scale, for those unfamiliar with the Imperial/Inch system, are the internationally recognized, gold standards for measurement - a 12oz can of Coca-Cola, and a Tea packet.

 

[JasonC]

Good to see that Earl Grey tea is still considered essential equipment