Far country ladder, which entrance did they go in via?

Brains

Well-known member
The Bung ladder was made by Ade Pedley I believe. It is in two parts. The chains etc at Surprise View are SS, but the ladder itself is galvanized steel. It is a repurposed scaffolders ladder in one section and is very heavy! I recall the ladder up to the Blowhole being in angle bolted together but that was last century...
 

mikem

Well-known member
Recently been having fun with Avon county, as it's now 6 years longer since it existed than it actually existed for!
 

adep

Member
Having also been up the ladder recently, I agree with what alexchien says about it above.

Just been discussing this with another forum member. There is, of course, the option of installing a replacement ladder made from stainless steel. Not cheap - but anyone who has used the equivalent item on Peak Cavern's Surprise View pitch over the last decade or two will realise that it's a very good long term solution.

As there are various reasons why folk may want to ascend the pitch up from the end of Hensler's Passage but not have SRT gear with them, on balance I'd favour a ladder rather than a rope. Ropes need regular inspection and occasional replacement, so the rope option brings with it a maintenance burden and potential ongoing costs. Spending some money on the stailess steel ladder option would sort it for the next 2 or 3 generations of cavers (at least).
I made and installed the SS ladder on the bung about 10 years ago, i can still get them made now if required, a cheaper and lighter alternative might be mild steel then have it hot dip galvanised for rust protection
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Just one thought; getting the ladder there will be quite gnarly. Would a zinc coating get eroded off in the process?
The same may apply to all the gritty boots wearing zinc off the rungs.

(Disclaimer; I'm not a metallurgist so a bit out of my depth here.)
 

IanWalker

Active member
i find stainless steel especially slippery for muddy hands and wellies, but that might just be me. stainless rebar is available with ribs which would possibly help.

galvanised should last a long time, if made of heavy section steel. no solution is 'forever' and no solution is without maintenance and inspection needs!

adding bracing to the existing ladder seems a sensible step. happy to help if needed.
 

georgenorth

Active member
Just one thought; getting the ladder there will be quite gnarly. Would a zinc coating get eroded off in the process?
The same may apply to all the gritty boots wearing zinc off the rungs.

(Disclaimer; I'm not a metallurgist so a bit out of my depth here.)
I’m not a metallurgist, but hot dipped galvanizing is ‘self healing’ so the steel won’t rust even if the coating gets scratched.
I was wondering about the possibility of using stainless steel and assembling ‘on site’. The sides of the ladder could be box section, and then use threaded bar for the rungs? This approach might make transport a lot easier…
 

Brains

Well-known member
What about a nice treated timber ladder with inspection rota?
Something like the "New Style" ladders found in mines? Pitch pine or elm sides with metal rungs bolted in when on site. NB oak will not last long at all.
 

andrewmcleod

Well-known member
i find stainless steel especially slippery for muddy hands and wellies, but that might just be me. stainless rebar is available with ribs which would possibly help.

galvanised should last a long time, if made of heavy section steel. no solution is 'forever' and no solution is without maintenance and inspection needs!

Stainless should be as close to 'forever' as matters and shouldn't need inspection...

Via ferrata steps (stainless) may be an easier solution in some situations?
 

ChrisB

Active member
Galvanized steel works because the zinc corrodes preferentially to the iron, so nicks and scratches don't matter. But after a finite time, the zinc has all gone, then it's no better than mild steel. Stainless works differently; the outer layer oxidises and forms a stable barrier to further corrosion, so it lasts effectively forever. The only issue is if there are contaminants like sea water that form unstable corrosion products.
 

traff

Member
The price I was quoted recently for galvanising was ludicrous due to the price of zinc. Probably as cheap to make in stainless. A modular design could be quite simple and easy to assemble on site. Rungs from 1/2 Schedule 80 pipe, tapped to M16 at the ends. Side rails from channel, joined with a simple fishplate design bolted through adjacent rungs and each side of the butt joint. All bolted together in situ.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Galvanized steel works because the zinc corrodes preferentially to the iron, so nicks and scratches don't matter. But after a finite time, the zinc has all gone, then it's no better than mild steel. Stainless works differently; the outer layer oxidises and forms a stable barrier to further corrosion, so it lasts effectively forever. The only issue is if there are contaminants like sea water that form unstable corrosion products.

If we start getting sea water into Hensler's Passage then I think the planet has far more to worry about than whether a ladder's corroding in a cave!

But that's useful intelligence Chris; thanks.

Just one other thought, on the rope vs ladder point; There are plenty of cavers who visit Hensler's Passage, having gone into the system with no SRT gear. (Winch meets.) Just another reason why a ladder is superior to a fixed rope in this situation.
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
Just one other thought, on the rope vs ladder point; There are plenty of cavers who visit Hensler's Passage, having gone into the system with no SRT gear. (Winch meets.) Just another reason why a ladder is superior to a fixed rope in this situation.

Not that they will get very far...
 

alanw

Well-known member
Not that they will get very far...
From http://www.cavemaps.org/surveys/independent/full/Ind Meredith(1975) Gaping Gill 75dpi.png
1708592493228.png
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
To be fair, there is a passage up there heading for Car Pot, but the digging is through very stodgy clay.
 
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