M
Mine Explorer
Guest
At the end of October the Deputy Gaveller in the FoD saw a thread on "Darkplaces" where (some) members of the discussion board were (apparently) arranging to visit Oakwood Mill Deep Iron Mine. The comments on the thread clearly demonstrated that (some) of the people concerned would (apparently) be prepared to force entry to the mine if necessary.
For what ever reason the content of this thread was entirely fictitious with the deliberate aim of fooling the FoD caving club and FoDCCAG. None of the comments made in the thread were unbelivable and has been demonstrated higher up this thread, people DO photograph themselves damaging property to gain access and then publish the photographs.
When the Deputy Gaveller saw the thread, he belived it (well he would, wouldn't he? That was the whole point). When damage was found at the mine it is not unreasonable for the Deputy Gaveller and FODCCAG to suspect that those people who had (apparently) quite openly advocated causing such damage might be responsible.
Having no doubt had to endure a certain amount of grief from the landowner over the subject, it is not unreasonable for the chairman of FoD caving club to write to the national caving press outlining his disgust at the damage, and in the process implying that the group of individuals who had (apparently) openly advocated forcing entry to the mine might be responsible.
Having set out to deliberatly fool the FoDCCAG and wind them up, I am now more than slightly amused when certain members of the Darkplaces forum themselves have got wound up and upset when they discover their plan actually worked!!!! - talk about ironic!
You might not have visited Oakwood, you may never have intended to visit Oakwood, but don't be surprised when someone reading the Darkplaces thread belives what has been written there - especially when the whole point of writing it was to fool someone into thinking you were going to Oakwood with forcing entry a strong possibility.
If people wish to trespass on others property to go underground (caves or mines) that is up to them, I certainly wouldn't recommend discussing (or recommending) it in public, as it is illegal.
When access agreements are in place I belive they should be adhered to, if you don't like them then go elsewhere. When we've visited working mines we've abided by the rules laid out by the company concerned, whether we agree with them or not, because we want to go on the visit. I enjoy taking underground photographs, some places I visit stipulate as an access condition that no photographs are taken. This is something I strongly disagree with (unless I can see a valid argument for the ban) but respect the right of the landowner to place conditions on entry. I'm afriad if the access agreement with the landowner requires £2m insurance cover (even if it is worthless in practice) then that is what's needed to go underground. Ignoring access agreements because it goes against one's beliefs doesn't do the "anti-insurance" "open-for-all" campaign any good what-so-ever. Don't forget, it's always easier to sink a ship from within the hull, than to lob bricks at it from the shore!
If anything at all good has come out of this escapade it must surely be that Mr (or Ms!) Moochingabout now knows that the mine entrance they discovered is called Oakwood Mill Deep Iron Mine, something that up until recently had not been published on the Darkplaces website. Armed with a name it would now be possible to research further the history of the mine, abandonment plans etc. and, if desired, seek permission to visit underground.
With reference to the wording of Mr. Taylor's letter in Descent, at the beginning he stated the fact that photographs of Oakwood were seen on Darkplaces website. Although he implied members of the Darkplaces forum might be responsible, he did nothing more than ask if those people from the forum would have the bottle to stand up and say they are innocent in the face of the thread of (now known to be false) arrangements and threats to force entry. As has been shown both on UkCaving.Com and Darkplaces.co.uk, the subscribers who contributed to the thread do have the bottle to put their hands up and say they're innocent!
AFAIC the deplorable damage to Oakwood Mill is nothing to do with either website's subscribers and this thread is starting to drift far away from the original issue and Mr. Taylor's letter.
For what ever reason the content of this thread was entirely fictitious with the deliberate aim of fooling the FoD caving club and FoDCCAG. None of the comments made in the thread were unbelivable and has been demonstrated higher up this thread, people DO photograph themselves damaging property to gain access and then publish the photographs.
When the Deputy Gaveller saw the thread, he belived it (well he would, wouldn't he? That was the whole point). When damage was found at the mine it is not unreasonable for the Deputy Gaveller and FODCCAG to suspect that those people who had (apparently) quite openly advocated causing such damage might be responsible.
Having no doubt had to endure a certain amount of grief from the landowner over the subject, it is not unreasonable for the chairman of FoD caving club to write to the national caving press outlining his disgust at the damage, and in the process implying that the group of individuals who had (apparently) openly advocated forcing entry to the mine might be responsible.
Having set out to deliberatly fool the FoDCCAG and wind them up, I am now more than slightly amused when certain members of the Darkplaces forum themselves have got wound up and upset when they discover their plan actually worked!!!! - talk about ironic!
You might not have visited Oakwood, you may never have intended to visit Oakwood, but don't be surprised when someone reading the Darkplaces thread belives what has been written there - especially when the whole point of writing it was to fool someone into thinking you were going to Oakwood with forcing entry a strong possibility.
If people wish to trespass on others property to go underground (caves or mines) that is up to them, I certainly wouldn't recommend discussing (or recommending) it in public, as it is illegal.
When access agreements are in place I belive they should be adhered to, if you don't like them then go elsewhere. When we've visited working mines we've abided by the rules laid out by the company concerned, whether we agree with them or not, because we want to go on the visit. I enjoy taking underground photographs, some places I visit stipulate as an access condition that no photographs are taken. This is something I strongly disagree with (unless I can see a valid argument for the ban) but respect the right of the landowner to place conditions on entry. I'm afriad if the access agreement with the landowner requires £2m insurance cover (even if it is worthless in practice) then that is what's needed to go underground. Ignoring access agreements because it goes against one's beliefs doesn't do the "anti-insurance" "open-for-all" campaign any good what-so-ever. Don't forget, it's always easier to sink a ship from within the hull, than to lob bricks at it from the shore!
If anything at all good has come out of this escapade it must surely be that Mr (or Ms!) Moochingabout now knows that the mine entrance they discovered is called Oakwood Mill Deep Iron Mine, something that up until recently had not been published on the Darkplaces website. Armed with a name it would now be possible to research further the history of the mine, abandonment plans etc. and, if desired, seek permission to visit underground.
With reference to the wording of Mr. Taylor's letter in Descent, at the beginning he stated the fact that photographs of Oakwood were seen on Darkplaces website. Although he implied members of the Darkplaces forum might be responsible, he did nothing more than ask if those people from the forum would have the bottle to stand up and say they are innocent in the face of the thread of (now known to be false) arrangements and threats to force entry. As has been shown both on UkCaving.Com and Darkplaces.co.uk, the subscribers who contributed to the thread do have the bottle to put their hands up and say they're innocent!
AFAIC the deplorable damage to Oakwood Mill is nothing to do with either website's subscribers and this thread is starting to drift far away from the original issue and Mr. Taylor's letter.
