c**tplaces said:
Pitty the person who actually thinks we ride around in landrovers ramming mine entrances and spraying paint on them. The fact is that doesnt actually happen in the real world.
I'm afriad we can only go by your message board members own comments.
I belive from reading the threads that the person who made the comment
(bolt cutters)
"...the keys for most locks, steel doors and serious locks require oxy-acetylene torches and on extreme occasions a stout chain and a Range Rover. "
Does indeed drive a land/range rover. He also made the comment:
"I have every intention of going and doing what I please, those who have recently decided to deny me (and my kind) access can go and shove it *********"
and
"If people reading the forum don't like what they read, they can bugger off and read something else"
and with reference to your organisation of the trip on the 30th said:
"... the customary array of gate "keys" can be brought with us..."
which were subsequently identified by another member as:
"Are they the same as MY gate keys ? - two feet long.... two handles ?
They are quite heavy on my keyring I find."
A whole string of other posters seem to concur with these views, including yourself with the comment:
"Actually thats an ideal compromise to access places" when referring to cutting chains (and repadlocking with your own device afterwards).
What conclusions do you think can be drawn from this??? I accept that on THIS occasion your board members may be innocent - but next time? or the previous occasion?
I'm aware of gates, padlocks and chains that have been forced to gain entry - including the use of the famous gas-axe! I'm afriad it DOES happen in the real world!
Mr. Taylor may be
implying that your message board members damaged the door to gain entry, but in all fairness your message board members themselves
imply they are quite prepared to! Not having been to the mine in question I don't know if that
is the view over the door. Your message board does imply the person in question didn't enter on their first visit - but we know your group arranged to return and were prepared to break in if necessary.
Access agreements with landowners take time and trust to establish. The selfish actions of a few can ruin it for the many. Whilst I appreciate peoples dislike of "insurance" the plan fact of the matter is that for about £30 a year (ie. 58p / week)
[individual BCA insurance membership 2003 rates] you
can get the insurance that permits official access to a whole host of sites across the country - without needing to be a member of a "club".
For less than a pint of alcohol a week you can produce evidence to a land owner that you are serious, responsible and can (theoretically) be trusted. It would open up the Forest of Dean to you, certain areas of North Wales, Cumbria and a whole host of caving regions where insurance is requested - even if it is not enforced. If you prefer the not so popular regions then it can be a useful tool when negotiating with land owners to "look the other way".
To gain access to Forest Enterprise land in our part of the country we purchase a 3 year license that covers a number of plantations. None of the entrances are gated but they are all fenced. We can visit when we like without need to resort to the attitude,
"...that if they can catch me, its a fair cop". In addition we get invited to give our views on future plans and usage, we are able to report any changes underground that might pose a danger to surface activities. It's a two-way thing.
Even if you do join a "club" you don't have to partake in club activities or politics. Our membership includes people that prefer to go underground on their own, they never come to club meetings and are rarely seen. They just receive the club publications and partake in the insurance scheme.
I'm afriad you'll get little sympathy from this quarter. On this subject you haven't got a stemple to stand on.
You
may be innocent on this occasion...