Geo Cache in Llanymynech Ogof

[idriswilliams]

Hi,
I noticed a geocache deep inside on a visit yesterday, which probably explains the amount of disturbance to stacked deads in the passages leading to it. Advice needed please. Should we remove it? If we do how can we stop others looking for it? It should be born in mind that this is a scheduled ancient monument and as such shouldn't have any unauthorised disturbance,

Idris Williams Shropshire Scouts Caving Team (We look after this site under the Descent "Adoptacave" scheme)

 

[alastairgott]

Almost Certainly, yes, move it closer to the entrance (or obviously in it!)

I know an employee of one of the Centres that use the cave very well, and they do get peeved when the stacked deads are moved around.
I believe some of the deads near "the nutcracker" get moved around a lot? sometimes causing further constriction.

 

[Pete K]

Find the cache number on the website and report it on conservation grounds. They should not be in walls anyway but it'll only get more trashed. Move it to mouth of cave if you have to but certainly out. Had an issue with one in Winnats Head cave a few years back and that got sorted very quickly.

 

[traff]

Almost Certainly, yes, move it closer to the entrance (or obviously in it!)

Sorry but the wrong thing to do. Placing it elsewhere will only create more disturbance at GZ as the cachers strive to look for it, exactly what you are trying to stop.
The cache owner should had received permission to place the cache (assuming the moderator was doing their job properly).

If it is inappropriately placed then it should be removed and the cache owner/Geocaching.com notified.

https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC6PPR2_the-ogof

 

[alanwsg]

I've alerted the geocaching reviewers to this.

 

[alanwsg]

I've been in contact with the geocaching reviewers who say that the cache was placed with permission from the landowners (the Parish council).

So, you should leave the geocache where it is.

 

[AnthonyB]

Have messaged the owner explaining the situation. Hopefully something will be sorted.

 

[cavemanmike]

It should be born in mind that this is a scheduled ancient monument and as such shouldn't have any unauthorised disturbance,

Idris Williams Shropshire Scouts Caving Team (We look after this site under the Descent "Adoptacave" scheme)

Oh no. Not another cadw incident  .
Not that they can afford it

 

[Martin Laverty]

Rather surprisingly, Cadw only appeared to consider the hillfort of any importance in their 'full report' for scheduling
- http://cadwpublic-api.azurewebsites.net/reports/sam/FullReport?lang=en&id=1980

The subsequent mining and quarrying merited notice only as a disturbance on a par with the golf course...

 

[Jenny P]

Find the cache number on the website and report it on conservation grounds. They should not be in walls anyway but it'll only get more trashed. Move it to mouth of cave if you have to but certainly out. Had an issue with one in Winnats Head cave a few years back and that got sorted very quickly.

I did try to get it written into the Geocaching "rules" after the Winnats Head episode that placing a cache in a cave was a no-no.  However, it doesn't seem to have made any impression on the majority of geocachers and it always seems to be non-cavers who do it - they think it's a claver idea.

 

[idriswilliams]

I've been in contact with the geocaching reviewers who say that the cache was placed with permission from the landowners (the Parish council).

So, you should leave the geocache where it is.

Hi,
I am not at all convinced that the landowners are the parish council. Firstly they do not have parish councils in Wales, (Community Councils). Secondly the Golf Club believe they are the owners!.

I think I will go on the website somebody quoted and tell them it has been moved I will place it on the nearby footpath, hidden in the brambles that block it.

Idris Williams Shropshire Scouts Caving Team

 

[alanwsg]

The cache owner has now archived the listing,
so people shouldn't come looking for it anymore.

 

[traff]

I did try to get it written into the Geocaching "rules" after the Winnats Head episode that placing a cache in a cave was a no-no.  However, it doesn't seem to have made any impression on the majority of geocachers and it always seems to be non-cavers who do it - they think it's a claver idea.

Please explain why placing a geocache in a cave is a no-no. In the vast majority of cases they have just a much right to enter the cave as you do. Provided the location is given the appropiate consideration (as all geocaches should be) I don't see the issue.

 

[Jules]

Hello guys,

I am a geocacher (sorry), who has a result of geocaching have gotten into caving - no great systems conquered yet but have done a few with rope descents and am thinking of joining a local club. I have lost count of the number of geocaches I have now done in caves (ok adits and small rifts) and from memory all the ones I know have been sympathetically placed to avoid disturbing the cave environment - as of course they should be if they are there.

Anyway, I'm sorry to hear about the disturbance to this system.  I have done the geocache here and don't remember it being close to any deads but of course my memory isn't perfect and of course the geocachers could have took a wrong turn. At the risk of defending geocachers I would be surprised and horrified if it was one of them.  I am not the "cache owner" but will check to see if anyone has reported it as a "did not find" and therefore could have made this problem in looking for the cache in the wrong place.

Like cavers, we value the environment and especially environments like this where we feel especially privileged to be - it being special in its own right and the province of cavers who we respect as a result. 

I am regularly down a system in the south west were I will pick up litter, report any damage including to piles of deads, etc.  So, if it helps restore the name of geocaching, or I can help repair any damage to this system then you can count on me and no doubt a few of my extreme-cross-over-caving-geocache mates to re-stack any deads as directed.  We would not tolerate anyone in geocaching who would make wilful or careless damage.  By the way, geocachers do not want to put caches in large systems because despite our love of caching we would simply want to enjoy that system as a caving trip. Think this cache has been in Llanymynech for about two years now and hope is not been the suspicion of any bother before.

 

[Jules]

PS to find this cache the cache page contained detailed and quite fool proof instructions as to how to get to it and exactly where it was - which they must have been if i found it without bother first time.  There also doesn't seem to be a history of "didnt finds" on it.  I'm not aware of any "cave" caches with "in you go and find it" type brief.  All the ones I know have detail description of turns and paces and features to look for en route.

 

[alastairgott]

I have done the geocache here and don't remember it being close to any deads but of course my memory isn't perfect and of course the geocachers could have took a wrong turn. At the risk of defending geocachers I would be surprised and horrified if it was one of them.  I am not the "cache owner" but will check to see if anyone has reported it as a "did not find" and therefore could have made this problem in looking for the cache in the wrong place.

There's no need to be sorry, welcome to the world of caving, hopefully you will be able to find gems of your own as you make the journey towards caving as a way of life and an obsession.

I've also heard that some of the damage may have been caused by people with metal detectors. Which is entirely possible given some of the finds in there.

 

[NewStuff]

The golf club are easy to deal with. I got wind that a couple of "Experienced" people were looking to take a metric fuckton of newbies in there to this "cache" as an "event". If you've been in, you know it's not the best idea to have large groups, let alone multiple large groups. The "experienced" people said they had a caving clubs and the golf clubs seal of approval. They had neither. The golf club were very good and obviously used to dealing with us weird underground types, and understood this was something most unusual and knocked the plans on the head. I'm all for getting people into caving, but that's just being silly.

Needless to say, my name is mud to most geocachers now, despite happily helping to take small, manageable groups around and help them learn.

 

[Jules]

Thanks for the welcome, Alastair. 

Totally agree with that, New Stuff.  And for reasons like this "events" to get a specific cache are officially outlawed in the geocaching community.  So shame on those who thought a good idea and pleased it didn't happen.  When I went in it was just myself and my mate - a bit against the caving code of 3 I know but we felt that enough. 

Persons may like to know this was rated as an extreme cache.  There's only about 200 extreme cachers in 35,000 or so uk cachers and consequently this cache only received a dozen finds in 2 years.  Extreme cachers tend to operate in teams of 2 or 3 and so this sounds like a group of non-extreme cachers.  Most non-extreme cachers would not be interested in this cache or in no way confident enough otherwise to attempt it.  Extreme cachers tend to come from existing outdoor sports, e.g., climbing, and consequently are more sensitive to the needs of special environments.

I did propose to the UK Geocaching Association last year that they should consider a sub-committee to help manage issues like this with extreme geocaches and other specialist environment users - cavers, climbers - and the tumbleweed is still blowing.

 

[cavemanmike]

Is the" old man of hoy" considered an extreme  geo cache.
Cos apparently there's one up there

 

[alanwsg]

Is the" old man of hoy" considered an extreme  geo cache.
Cos apparently there's one up there

There's a cache nearby, but it's not on the Old man of Hoy itself.

Also, it's an 'Earthcache' - there's nothing to physically find there, to 'claim a find' you have to go there and answer questions about the local geology.
It's not an extreme cache.