royfellows said:
It might be time for a reality check on the way that things currently stand.
We know that CADW has refered the matter to the police.
Normally, the police will investigate, gather and collate evidence, and if its felt that a criminal offence has been committed, will pass their files on to the CPS.
If the CPS feel that there is a realistic chance of obtaining a conviction, they will go ahead and prosecute, otherwise they will not proceed.
In this case I doubt that there is any evidence against anybody for anything, hence the police response.
I don't think anyone wants to see cavers prosecuted Roy, I hope no one does anyway.
The reality check is needed by anyone who thinks (or is suggesting it, to try to cover up for the people involved?) that the aven was climbed to try to find new passage at the top but instead there was an earth choke with roots, which was dug through out of curiosity, only for the cavers to find themselves on the dram road.
It's pretty obvious that the survey would have been checked and passages spotted that lay at a shallow depth below the surface but also below the dram road. The aven was climbed and connected to the surface to provide a shorter and easier route into the Dollimore's Series, further evidence of which is that at least three spots along that route have now been enlarged, not just the tightest bit of the Last Sandwich (as discussed on another thread about the enlargement of classic sporting squeezes). This follows on from the route to the end of a different but nearby system also being 'eased', which included a boulder being reduced to rubble, to remove a squeeze that had been part of the trip to the end since the 1970s. The new entrance was used for a year in relative secrecy (there is a video) until the chairman of the Cambrian Caving Council started posting a series of reports on Facebook of trips into the cave using this entrance, which seemed to be encouraging people to use it. These included surface photos of the entrance, making it reasonably easy to identify the location. Some people didn't seem to appreciate this publicity. The CCC and the BCA then further 'Bigged Up' the entrance via articles in their respective newsletters. Both articles were very positive about the entrance and both failed to mention any negative aspects that could cause problems down the line, such as it being potentially dangerous to passers-by and that it was dug into a scheduled monument without permission and against the known wishes of the landowner. Surely these potential problems were known to the authors of the articles, so why weren't they mentioned? The BCA article even tried to put down the original entrance by saying it is flood prone!? The last time I went through there was during the very heavy rain of Storm Brian. We got a bit wetter than usual!
This new entrance drops straight into the aven. If a walker or their dog were to fall into the entrance, they would fall to the bottom and then down a further drop into a large passage (or so I have been told). Work would need to be carried out to enable access to be maintained and to keep passers-by safe. That work would need permission. But since the entrance was opened up against the expressed wishes of the land owner and has altered a scheduled monument without permission being sought, then it's just not going to happen. It's probably best to just accept that there isn't going to be access to Draenen via this route.
Personally, I'm not against there being more than one entrance to Draenen but I don't want to see entrances opened up willy nilly. I don't understand the "You've got to open up entrances, don't you" argument. "Why?" "Well, it's just what cavers do, isn't it!" I don't think that the Nunnery entrance or Twll Du are well placed but that Drws Cefn is more acceptable. Of course, all these entrances were dug and connected into the cave, against the known wishes of the land owner. The more entrances to a cave, the greater the impact of cavers, the poorer the conservation. Maybe a cave the size of Draenen can handle 2 or even 3 entrances? But a lot of thought should to go into where entrances are sited. Discussion would need to happen between cavers and any decision made, one way or the other, would need to be respected by all. The obvious place for this kind of discussion is the management group but due to it's strange voting set up (probably done deliberately, knowing the sort of people they were going to have to deal with!), people don't feel they can get a fair hearing and so the group lacks respect, making it easy for the renegades to proclaim some sort of moral justification for their actions. If cavers decide among themselves that an entrance at a particular location would be desirable, then permissions can be sort. That's all a bit idealistic, I know, but climbers have bolting forums, where local activists decide on whether a particular crag or route should be bolted.
