Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase

[DARBY]

No disrespect to anyone in this topic and i understand totally the financial restraints on the education system, regarding outdoor groups finances. BUT this is not the farmers problem i bet on average over 200 cars and vans use the track down to Giants each year if not a lot more, the farmer maintains the track and provides us with a good parking and kitting up area and because of the payment box that a lot of people take the piss out of means that your cars are being watched pretty regular hence lack of thefts from this space.The same facility in stoney would be a GOD SEND.I think the rise is reasonable, but also think that if he were approached it may discuss a group booking fee if he has not already. Another thing to remeber is that there is still some potential in this area may be big or small and the landowners do read these forums so people outside of Derbyshire caving please be careful what you say as you may knacker the job up for us Cheers....PS ITS ONLY A QUID BEERS JUST GONE UP BUT YOU STILL BUY RACK LOADS OF IT COME ON PROGRESSION HAS TO HAPPEN

 

[graham]

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY Go Big Jim 

To echo cavesherpa's point, there a couple of sites on Mendip where it is not actually necessary to do so but where folks will pay a quid to park their cars because they then know that they are under reasonable surveillance, compared with the free parking.

 

[shotlighter]

IIRC Mr Watson charged ?1 in the the mid 80s, this increase probably dosn't even mean the cost has tracked (real) inflation over this period.
Get a life - even if it didn't, bit more than the price of a pint for a days entertainment?

 

[DARBY]

To anyone who thinks a quid increase is taking the piss, then I for one dont ever want to go down the pub with you, you tight gits.  Its 3 friggin quid for god sake. 3 friggin quid!  Dear oh dear.

I will pay the extra quid for any individual who goes this month (and I earn f*** all as a ranger).  PM me if you want the quid. (I will publish list of names under title "Tight C***s" of those who ask for the quid)

Good one Jim i have just emptied my pink polka dot clay pig and there is 21 quid in pound coins i will donate this gladly to the tight c...s benevolant fund so 21 cavers can go to giants happy at only paying 2 quid.To recieve this  they would Have to write a disclaimer saying if i have to be rescued i cannot leave a tip for my rescuers as i am a stingy git and have no respect for the property i am allowed to tresspass on cheers FAT SPELIO WALLET

 

[SamT]

Mr sherpa has a point -

I agree that 99% of us posh car driving, fully kitted up, professional working,  middle aged,  wife, two kids, big mortgage should be able to put up with an extra fiver a year (going on about the amount of times I may visit giants).

However the instructed groups and the student groups may well suffer. I think DCA might want to consider approaching the farmer to agree a group discount.

02/02/02 Rescue,
06/05/03 Rescue,
20/12/03 Rescue,
12/05/04Rescue,
02/05/04 Rescue,
20/08/07 Rescue,
02/12/07 Rescue,

just join DCRO and you can go for free every year (ish). 

 

[graham]

Has it ever occurred to anyone that, just maybe, the reason he has put the fee up is that he wishes to gently dissuade these large groups from using his cave?  :-\

 

[kay]

it is always Giants that gets people inspired and never Carlswark.

Can't argue with that!!

I can. Carlswark wasn't my first but it was one of my early ones, and I had a great time. Mind, we had a good and knowledgeable leader.

 

[Big Jim]

To anyone who thinks a quid increase is taking the piss, then I for one dont ever want to go down the pub with you, you tight gits.  Its 3 friggin quid for god sake. 3 friggin quid!  Dear oh dear.

I will pay the extra quid for any individual who goes this month (and I earn f*** all as a ranger).  PM me if you want the quid. (I will publish list of names under title "Tight C***s" of those who ask for the quid)

Good one Jim i have just emptied my pink polka dot clay pig and there is 21 quid in pound coins i will donate this gladly to the tight c...s benevolant fund so 21 cavers can go to giants happy at only paying 2 quid.To recieve this  they would Have to write a disclaimer saying if i have to be rescued i cannot leave a tip for my rescuers as i am a stingy git and have no respect for the property i am allowed to tresspass on cheers FAT SPELIO WALLET

I really hope there aren't 21 "TC's" out there Andy to claim the contents of our fund.  Would be a sad sad day indeed.

 

[DARBY]

i am selling my pink polka dot pig on ebay just in case there are 22 tight c...s i cannot handle the poverty anymore

 

[Les W]

I really hope there aren't 21 "TC's" out there Andy to claim the contents of our fund.  Would be a sad sad day indeed.

FRom the comments above it looks like it is all Andy's fund, he put up all 21 quid. 

 

[Big Jim]

I really hope there aren't 21 "TC's" out there Andy to claim the contents of our fund.  Would be a sad sad day indeed.

FRom the comments above it looks like it is all Andy's fund, he put up all 21 quid. 

I'll match it.  Thats 42 Ti*ht C**** who can go down giants this month for only 2 quid.  Enroll now

 

[DARBY]

These light hearted comments above are from Derbyshire cavers some of whom have on going projects with good potential in this area and are trying to protect there well built relations with landowners, i am not being an arse licker but if you only come here twice a year thats 6 quid buy a moped and save on petrol and the enviroment or if it bothers people that much dont come at all it will make DCRO life easier.As this subject is now acheiving a some what monumental boring status i am going to write it off. We have had our say night night

ps keep your eye on ebay caving and potholing for the pink polka dot pig BUY IT NOW PRICE A QUID TOWARDS GIANTS ENTRANCE FEE free postage.

 

[Rob]

Going to stick my neck out a bit, as there is indeed a growing momentum here...

If your pints went up say 20p, would you expect everyone to be fine with this and to put up no resistance, not even discuss it?
Suggesting "if you don't like it, go somewhere else" is all well and good, but that's what people will do and you can't blame them for complaining about it.
It's better that such increases are met with at least a bit of discontent, especially if the landowners read this (which i doubt).

(ducks and run's for cover...)

 

[jasonbirder]

Its only a Quid
?3 still represents excellent value for a days or an evenings entertainment!
Of course in an ideal world nothing would increase in price...but unfortunately in the real world it does!
Don't blame the farmer for trying to make a few extra quid here and there if he can...I know I would do the same
Still much rather have a trespass fee to pay than have to write off somewhere and apply for a permit...I Know which offers easier access!
It seems that most concerns come from proffessional leaders of organised groups...am i being naive in thinking that they can pass on their costs to the customers...and surely the ?1 increase in the trespass fee must be a drop in the ocean compared to their other overheads...

 

[Brendan]

Seriously guys - with pints costing ~?3, petrol at over ?1 a litre, a ?1 increase for access (sorry, this isn't some kind of Whitelackington rant about modern life  ) isn't really going to push up the cost of a trip that much. I can't imaging sheep farming in Derbyshire is that profitable, and as other people have already said - it's his land, he doesn't have to have the cave open. Doing most of my caving in the Peaks I accept that an entrance fee is part of some trips, not of others. I would rather pay to go down a cave than it not be open at all.

Yes, the farmer at P8 might put his prices up. I'd still go down P8 as it is a good cave. If you paid me ?2 to go down Layby I wouldn't go, as it isn't as good in my opinion. There are plenty of caves in the Peak you can go down for free, many of them are very good. Suggestions about 'just not paying the fee' are unhelpful - I thought we had been through the permits/access agreements enough already. If you don't want to pay, don't go. It is selfish to cause access problems for others because you are too tight to pay.

SamT - while discounts for students would be nice, I can't see it affecting their desire to cave that much - it wouldn't have put me off, and on our SUSS freshers trips we charge the same for first trips down Giants and Carlswark - we just make more profit from Carlswark!

 

[andymorgan]

Still much rather have a trespass fee to pay than have to write off somewhere and apply for a permit...I Know which offers easier access!

 

[darkplaces]

Still much rather have a trespass fee to pay than have to write off somewhere and apply for a permit...I Know which offers easier access!

I'll add my thumbs up to that.
Empire building & Gates verses 'goodwill fee' and leaving people alone with the risks - Priceless.
The best way to show to the farmer he's taking the piss or just judged it wrong (farmers are human I think and might have made a bad judgement on how much to charge) then vote by not going, even organise it. Its his right to define a price its your right to not go and express your view.

 

[dunc]

http://www.caveinfo.org.uk/nca/paying.htm#Appendix%201

 

[paul]

I only posted the original message as a "heads up" as a group of my friends went to Giants with ?2 each not realising there had been an increase.

Judging from the amount of moaning going on, it's a good job the fee at Giants Hole is only increased only every 20 years or so....

 

[littlebear]

Well even if I went regularly and lived close by I don't think I would mind ?3... I agree totally about the road maintenence, walls, litter and having to let helicopters have landing access, etc...

Put your effort into complaining about fuel prices, somewhere it counts!

(But that said - I agree discussion is good and realistically people are always going to be half and half as to whether they agree with/like something... usually price rises are exactly that, what half of us can afford and half cannot, the rise being enough to compensate for the loss)

As for the education centres... I don't think ?1 or even a couple more, increase per child [parents paying more not the centres] will do that much harm... if the competition is undercutting you they are making a loss - either that or ring around and get your local competition to agree that you all increase your charges by the same amount.