Giants Hole "access Fee" Increase

[Peter Burgess]

Whilst we may not like being asked to pay more to enter someone else's cave, it is the landowner's prerogative to charge (or ask for) whatever he wants. The normal rules of supply and demand will come into play. If he asks for too much, his 'income' will drop, if he gets the price 'right', enough people will continue to pay up to justify the new price (in the eyes of the owner).

 

[dunc]

If he asks for too much, his 'income' will drop, if he gets the price 'right', enough people will continue to pay up to justify the new price (in the eyes of the owner).

My guess is that his 'income' will drop a fair bit because less people will visit due to the increased price (well, less people unless they have more money than sense!)

 

[cap n chris]

Even if there are 30% fewer visitors, the increased goodwill fee will still generate a greater return than the old one.

i.e.:

at ?2 per head x 100 visitors = ?200

a 30% reduction in numbers = 70 visitors

at ?3 per head x 70 visitors = ?210

 

[phil.gregson]

I don't like paying to visit caves either but, to be fair, ?3.00 is pretty cheap for a few hours entertainment!

Farming in the peak isn't an easy way to make money and farmers have to do what they can.

I just see it as a 'like it or lump it' situation - not really worth getting wound up about.

Phil

 

[cap n chris]

Just had a thought. Cavers will often moan at stuff. Any stuff.

Goodwill fee(s) and their enormity being one such example.

But. Would cavers prefer to have a goodwill fee system in place OR a permit system? - which is the bigger moan?.... paying a few quids or the hasslings of lerning riting and stamp-hunting?*



* I know of some caves where you are required to write for a trip, have a leader, have insurance AND pay a goodwill fee - and many fine cavers willingly do all this without making a to-do about it.

 

[paul]

Over twenty years ago, when it cost 50p for P8, down the road from Giants Hole, the cost at Giants was ?2.

Giants Hole used to have a very difficult entance passage involving baling a sump and in the 60's the then owner blasted through the obstructions so that cavers can now get through in 10 minutes what used to take a couple of hours at least.

This was in order to open up the cave as a show cave. But planning permission was not granted for associated buildings so the project was scrapped. Hence the rather larger fee charged as an attempt to recoup the expenses.

Giants Hole has always been a popular cave - for example during the Foot & Mouth epidemic in 2001 when Giants was one of the few Peak caves available, over 65 vehicles were counted there one particular day...

The cave changed owners a few years ago and the new owner still allows access. The owner is not always present so the payment operates on an "homesty box" principle. He does appear now and then and does keep an eye on things.

This is the first increase in many, many years.

Just to put things in perspective.

 

[Mark]

Carlswark is not exactly a great advert for caving.

(Whats the problem with Carlswark,)

All this moaning about a quid, you could go and spend it on a couple of packets of crisps or a can of coke instead, even the lowest paid in the country would only have to work less than 15mins to earn that.

How much has the instructors wages, insurance on the van, price per litre of diesel, cost of caving gear gone up in the last 12 months never mind twenty years

Get a grip, pay the quid

 

[ianball11]

When I was a student trying to get 4 people to go on a trip to make the petrol cost less, going to Yorkshire was more common not Derbyshire which is closer because an ?8 entrance fee makes it less cheap and that is what we always claimed when selling (usually unsucessfully) the caving experience.
I wont be going to Giants again.
Ian B.

 

[SamT]

it does set a president though. How long before p8 is 3 quid too - then if enough people pay , they might try 4.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Every time the price of anything goes up or down it sets a precedent for someone else to do the same. It's been going on for thousands of years. Market forces, supply and demand, competition and all that.

 

[Hughie]

Of course - it's possible that we've all been paying too little for access for years!

 

[Peter Burgess]

Of course - it's possible that we've all been paying too little for access for years!

:spank: Hughie! Anyone could be reading this!!

 

[Hughie]

Of course - it's possible that we've all been paying too little for access for years!

:spank: Hughie! Anyone could be reading this!!

I know!!! 

As you said - market forces, supply and demand etc.
Think of the beneficial effects for cave conservation?

 

[whitelackington]

Even if there are 30% fewer visitors, the increased goodwill fee will still generate a greater return than the old one.

i.e.:

at ?2 per head x 100 visitors = ?200

a 30% reduction in numbers = 70 visitors

at ?3 per head x 70 visitors = ?210

Wont people try to get in for nothing ?

 

[Peter Burgess]

Even if there are 30% fewer visitors, the increased goodwill fee will still generate a greater return than the old one.

i.e.:

at ?2 per head x 100 visitors = ?200

a 30% reduction in numbers = 70 visitors

at ?3 per head x 70 visitors = ?210

Wont people try to get in for nothing ?

That sort of thing doesn't happen in Derbyshire.

 

[littlebear]

?2 per bod was enough, but ?3 is too much... Any more and I'd be expecting it to be lit with a tour guide to point out obscure formations that look like this, that and the other!

Now if only we could get Wookey Hole showcave to agree that ?3 is a good fee...

 

[mrodoc]

I don't think you can blame the farmer from trying to make an income out of an asset.  They have a hard enough time anyway trying to make a living because everybody wants cheap food. To put things in perspective, I go scuba diving and a day out for 2 dives meaning about 90 minutes max actually underwater usually costs me about ?35 (this includes parking, air and club boat fees). Three quid for 4 hours caving (less if you're a speed maniac) seems a pretty good deal as the cave fee includes parking as well.

 

[dunc]

To put things in perspective, I go scuba diving and a day out for 2 dives meaning about 90 minutes max actually underwater usually costs me about ?35 (this includes parking, air and club boat fees).

But your ?35 goes towards things you need - air and boat. You could argue that ?3 is for parking and maintaining the track/parking area - but it's a per-person fee rather than a vehicle/parking fee. I doubt maintenance costs are that high and I'll take a wild guess here that non of the money actually goes towards looking after the cave in anyway..

 

[Elaine]

All this moaning about a quid, you could go and spend it on a couple of packets of crisps or a can of coke instead, even the lowest paid in the country would only have to work less than 15mins to earn that.

Not me - I would have to work 20 minute to earn ?1. However, I would happily pay it - it is not as if I go there often (only the once so far!) Manor Farm on Mendip is our most expensive cave, and even though it is one of my favourites I still never go there more than - say - 4 times a year. That would cost me an extra ?4 a year in Giant's Hole increase terms.

I gather it is mostly those who take paying guests in there who are not liking this increase much. Is a ?1 increase in cost to the paying customer really going to put people off? There must be other places that they could be taken to, or is Giant's the best for beginners (ie most impressive with minimal pitches etc)?

 

[Les W]

it does set a precident though. How long before p8 is 3 quid too - then if enough people pay , they might try 4.

I can still remember when it was 20p to visit Swildons or Eastwater, the last rise was from 50p to ?1, tahts a 100% increase.
A ?1 increase is hardly going to break the bank is it. If outdoor centres are operating on such tight margins that ?1 is make or break then they will be going out of business quite soon anyway.