Giant's Vandalism

[Pete K]

I've just had a call from a friend of mine who has been down Giant's this morning.
He's photographed and removed all the graffiti he found. Must have taken ages as there were dozens of bits. I'll let folks know if any further clean up action is needed, but it's always worth having a small green scouring pad in your suit pocket these days. No doubt there will be a few extra bits of paint found in time.
Thank you James Blake 

 

[RichardB1983]

Hi all. Thanks for the pics and YT links. Can I ask that everyone refrain from any contact with these people that might tip them off in any way so that they don't remove the posts just yet.

It's not strictly within YT's terms of service, but there are other websites that allow you to download a local copy of videos, that can be kept just in case they remove their own online one.

 

[SamT]

Whilst it makes my piss boil on the one hand, on the other, they're just copying the type of thing they see in the movies or Bear Grylls types. (spray painting arrows etc).  It actually shows a degree of forethought and DCRO weren't called out to help find a missing team.  Historically caving clubs have usually 'left their mark' at the end of passages etc .

Fair play to them for getting off their arses, driving out from donny to the peak and having a proper adventure. 

But litter and graffiti still make me lose my shit and want to inflict genuine pain.  Marsellus Wallace style.

Perhaps they need taking under someone's wing and showing the ways.

 

[SamT]

Anyone lay their hands on a cordless power washer - perhaps a bit too powerful, but worth try perhaps.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/worx-hydroshot-22bar-20v-1-5ah-li-ion-powershare-cordless-portable-pressure-washer/503HV?tc=NT8&ds_kid=92700046638549236&ds_rl=1243318&ds_rl=1241687&ds_rl=1245250&ds_rl=1245250&gclid=Cj0KCQiA88X_BRDUARIsACVMYD8IM-8Vkp_edtY8IegTGRPDCFfsTYEGHt1e7Rk7dTLXsOk0Cl6TLxoaAihNEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

plenty of water down there.

 

[Pete K]

Posted over from Facebook as I don't know if Jon has a log-in here:

"Folks
Would you be kind enough to post any links/photographs you have of the damage to my works email address please
Jonathan.reeves.14006@derbyshire.pnn.police.uk
Regards
Jon"

I'm in agreement with SamT and others, despite the obvious anger that these incidents cause most of us, we must attempt to educate folk who show a desire to explore instead of vilifying them. This graffiti is clearly a terrible thing, but they are probably just copying what they have seen others in their feeds do online. If that is their 'textbook' for safe exploring, then we need to deal with that by better public education. Something like an explorers code of conduct written specifically with non-cavers in mind might go a little way to helping.

 

[Pitlamp]

These guys look to have a fair degree of physical fitness and clearly have a desire to explore.
Could it be that, with the right approach / support, they might actually make very good cavers?

No way am I condoning their actions but as several people have thought above, they perhaps simply didn't know any better.

I think Pete K's thoughts on education are well worth taking on board.

 

[SamT]

I love their "Wow!.. Corr!.. Amazing!!"  type reactions.  Took me back to when I used to feel those kind of reactions from going down new places (still do, just don't get down any new places these days  ).

 

[kay]

Yes, I thought the same as Pete K. Their reactions, for example at the waterfall, were genuine appreciation.

The video seems to have been put up by a group of bare knuckle boxers, so, yes, presumably physically fit as Pitlamp suggests.

 

[Pitlamp]

If I lived a bit nearer I might be tempted to invite them to join in on a real caving trip. They'd probably be up for it, learn a lot in the process (especially about respecting natural phenomena) and have a really good time in the process.

Just imagine if all that energy currently given to their chosen sport were to be directed at a cavers' dig - they could be a real asset in the right company.

 

[langcliffe]

One major problem is that there is now a Youtube video out there in cyber land which will be seen by others as a demonstration of acceptable behaviour.

 

[PeteHall]

The other problem is that part of the online ego that goes with these sort of videos is the 'rebel rule-breaker'.

Doing it 'properly' removes part of the thrill for some of these people.

I don't know if this applies to these people, but as others have said, they were clearly impressed by the place and clearly put in a good effort to travel there and get down the cave. If they could be 'taken under a wing' and shown the ropes in the right sort of way,  they could well become great cavers.

 

[paul]

The thing is, if they were so impressed by what they saw, why did they think it was acceptable to just dump their rubbish?

 

[SamT]

Just the way innit... if you come from a shithole, where nobody gives a flying toss about their surrounding, graffiti and litter everywhere, your dad  chucked litter, your brother chucked litter, everyone around drops litter.  Its just the 'done thing' for you as you go through life.  It takes a fundamental shift in thinking to stop.

The other problem is that part of the online ego that goes with these sort of videos is the 'rebel rule-breaker'.

Totally ^^

 

[cap n chris]

This category of caver is not new and will continue to engage in adventures; c'est la vie.

 

[Phild]

Far from trying to understand the motives they need/deserve a slap. I was once with George Cooper who was controlling a callout to P8. This was the second call out for this team. George asked for a quiet word, smacked the leader in the teeth and threatened worse if we ever saw them again. We didn?t, see them again that is. Perfect example of 70,s etiquette.

 

[cap n chris]

Far from trying to understand the motives they need/deserve a slap. I was once with George Cooper who was controlling a callout to P8. This was the second call out for this team. George asked for a quiet word, smacked the leader in the teeth and threatened worse if we ever saw them again. We didn?t, see them again that is. Perfect example of 70,s etiquette.

Presumably I'm reading your post correctly insofar as it appears you are suggesting they are assaulted.

 

[PeteHall]

Far from trying to understand the motives they need/deserve a slap. I was once with George Cooper who was controlling a callout to P8. This was the second call out for this team. George asked for a quiet word, smacked the leader in the teeth and threatened worse if we ever saw them again. We didn?t, see them again that is. Perfect example of 70,s etiquette.

Well given that the guy is a bare knuckle boxer,  I can tell you for sure that I wouldn't be lining up to smack him in the teeth, whether or not I thought it was the right solution, which as it happens, I don't.

 

[royfellows]

Be a shame if he got back to his car and found someone had sprayed arrows all over it.

 

[A_Northerner]

I  perfected the technique on the "Land of Dope and Story" slab in Cumberland Cavern last year!

I quite liked that boulder! How old was the graffiti? Did it date back to the Trogs? I'm not sure if the Trogs count as graffiti or archaeology at this point...

 

[pwhole]

They're now officially archaeology! See Graffiti in Peak District (England) caves and mines: historic record or mindless vandalism by John Barnatt, Geoff Peppit and Dave Webb - and includes one of my photos of the Troggs graffiti - that very boulder in fact:

https://bcra.org.uk/pub/candks/index.html?j=126

There's also an online supplement with many more photos, including some of the Victorian showcave visitors.