High gill caves, Dent

[mikem]

In fact, the original survey shows upper and lower caves meeting pretty much at what is presumably the photographed shakehole, which would leave no space for the middle cave there - definitely need to check other side (my suggested grid ref on previous reply, unfortunately no north arrow on 1962 survey):

CaveMaps.org

cavemaps.org

 

[mikem]

Kendal journal 1966-67 doesn't help much on location, but does say that shakehole had open chambers as well, page 16 onwards:

Publications by Kendal Caving Club – Kendal Caving Club

kendalcaving.org.uk

Trip to upper cave on 19th June 1966 in newsletters vol.2 no.2:

YURT Archives | North York Moors Caving Club

 

[mikem]

Plus original report on lower cave and opening the upper entrance:

NPC Journal 2(2), 1959: "Blue Journal", High Gill Caves

Alternative link to YURT:

https://nymcc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Vol2.pdf

 

[thehungrytroglobite]

Best report to Natural England .

the Environment Agency and local authorities deal with this stuff, not Natural England

 

[braveduck]

the Environment Agency and local authorities deal with this stuff, not Natural England

Natural England organize cavers to empty rubbish out of caves .I have been involved on many occasions . Get your facts right before you open your prolific mouth ! As have many members of the BPC you claim to be a member of !

 

[mikem]

Natural England are responsible for national nature reserves and SSSIs - not sure that either apply in this case.

 

[Samouse1]

The government website seems to suggest the environment agency too, and also crimestoppers! Why should cavers have to volunteer their spare time to clean up illegally dumped farm waste, the farmer should be responsible for clearing up their mess!

 

[thehungrytroglobite]

Natural England organize cavers to empty rubbish out of caves .I have been involved on many occasions . Get your facts right before you open your prolific mouth ! As have many members of the BPC you claim to be a member of !

Natural England is the government's advisor for nature. The Environment Agency and local authorities deal with regulatory matters, environmental crimes and ensuring businesses (including farmers) comply with environmental regulations. While it is our collective responsibility as cavers to remove rubbish left by cavers, and ensure caves remain clean, the rubbish in question counts as fly-tipping and would be best dealt with by a regulatory body rather than caving volunteers.

I am not sure why the insults are necessary and why you couldn't just say 'I was of the understanding that Natural England dealt with these matters because...' in a polite manner.
Since you 'claim' to be a member of the BPC too, I suggest that if you have any concerns about me you can discuss them with me in person in the ale tent next weekend rather than on a public forum.

 

[paul]

Moderator comment: Please stop the personal attacks or actions will be taken

 

[Ed]

The government website seems to suggest the environment agency too, and also crimestoppers! Why should cavers have to volunteer their spare time to clean up illegally dumped farm waste, the farmer should be responsible for clearing up their mess!

Guardians of the Countryside ain't they.....

Fair enough helping clear historic tipping, but current and on going flytipping should be dealt with like any other flytipping incident - farmers are not above the law, despite what many think. There is also no longer an exemption for burning any farm waste (except clean hedge /tree cuttings in location of cutting but only with previously spied for permission)

Farmers are the first to complain when a group of gentlemen, maybe with Oirish accent turn up with a flat bed Transit and unload it.

 

[pwhole]

I couldn't resist it

 

[mikem]

Why should cavers have to volunteer their spare time to clean up illegally dumped farm waste, the farmer should be responsible for clearing up their mess!

Well, it depends if you want access to a new dig site...

 

[Alex]

Kendal journal 1966-67 doesn't help much on location, but does say that shakehole had open chambers as well, page 16 onwards:

Publications by Kendal Caving Club – Kendal Caving Club​

kendalcaving.org.uk

Trip to upper cave on 19th June 1966 in newsletters vol.2 no.2:
YURT Archives | North York Moors Caving Club

I will hopefully return at some point in the next few months, when I do if I have time, I will attempt to find the middle entrance as I suspect it's in the gill, I distinctly remember a small amount of water sinking.

 

[mikem]

As my reply previous to that one - OS map shows a cave on other side of gill

 

[Pitlamp]

Natural England is the government's advisor for nature. The Environment Agency and local authorities deal with regulatory matters, environmental crimes and ensuring businesses (including farmers) comply with environmental regulations. While it is our collective responsibility as cavers to remove rubbish left by cavers, and ensure caves remain clean, the rubbish in question counts as fly-tipping and would be best dealt with by a regulatory body rather than caving volunteers.

I am not sure why the insults are necessary and why you couldn't just say 'I was of the understanding that Natural England dealt with these matters because...' in a polite manner.
Since you 'claim' to be a member of the BPC too, I suggest that if you have any concerns about me you can discuss them with me in person in the ale tent next weekend rather than on a public forum.

This is most definitely not a "personal attack" - but I feel I ought to mention that, in general, both cavers and farmers usually benefit so much more if a spirit of co-operation pervades, rather than an adversarial approach being attempted.

Remember, kick one and you kick 'em all.

I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong but there is a great deal to be said for thinking this sort of thing out very carefully.