Hunters Lodge Inn Sink Closed

[cavemanmike]

it's a really sad day for cavers when this kind of sh** happens. 

 

[cavermark]

very sad 

 

[estelle]

maybe it's better to focus on remedial action in the first instance. It is possible to repair stals of course.

In the case of a large number of small ones it's a real jigsaw puzzle - but not impossible. I'm sure Estelle & friends know exactly what they're doing (as they're all very experienced cavers). But is it worth collecting all the fragments and bringing them out as soon as possible before they get trampled or go AWOL?

the cave is closed so we can attempt to survey as much of the wreckage as possible in situ to try and work out what it what, etc. and formulate a plan of repairing anything we can either in situ or by bringing out of the cave, repairing and putting back in later. This should stop anything going AWOL and also anyone bar those working on the repairs and cleanup from being in the cave at all for now.

It's surprising how they can be put back together. Painstaking - yes - but more productive than spending the rest of our caving careers looking at all the broken ends with sadness.

we can but hope, i'd like to think that we'll do our best

Tony Brown and I put together a big dossier of articles on stal repair not too long ago. I'm sure the contents could be made available to help anyone who may contemplate a repair effort in HLS.

this would be really helpful if possible.

 

[Pitlamp]

I'll send you a PM Estelle.

Well done for doing your level best to try to sort this out.

 

[cavemanmike]

thank god you've got some photo's of before vandalism to cross reference and hopefully get (a)to fit( b) etc etc
good luck

 

[Laurie]

So sad that anyone could do that.  Why?
Have you changed the lock?

 

[Bob Smith]

I am genuinely upset to see this, and remember how fantastic it was when first opened. We managed many digging trips in this area without damage to the formations enroute, so seeing this is totally gutting.

 

[Alex]

Very sad, and am lucky to have seen them in their original state. However, I guess this goes to show that gates don't work.

 

[cap n chris]

Indeed. But they definitely help. Without gates/tape the damage could easily have occured within the first few months.

What works really well is gates combined with conservation warden/leadership.

 

[Jopo]

Very sad, and am lucky to have seen them in their original state. However, I guess this goes to show that gates don't work.

I find that comment unbelievable. So open uncontrolled access would be better?

Sometimes it is difficult to stay within the forum rules.

Jopo

 

[Peter Burgess]

No gates doesn't work either.

 

[cap n chris]

There is probably nothing that works against vandals. Don't beat yourselves up over it. Criminal damage by a third party is not controllable.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Using this tragedy to lobby against gates is pathetic. Proper cave visitor management is what is needed. It's not access that needs control, it's cave visitors. Control equates to doing our very best to make sure caves are only visited by people who know how to respect them and behave in them. In this sad case we have learnt that the access process in place has, sadly, been shown to not be sufficient. We might not like being recorded and listed, but in this case it may well have deterred the perpetrators.

 

[Roger W]

I suspect that gates do help to keep out the spray-painting, barbecue-holding type of partygoer.  But it seems there are certain types of (at a loss to find a suitable word!) who manage to get in anywhere...

Best of luck with the superglue!  I hope something can be salvaged.

 

[droid]

Have you changed the lock?

My thoughts exactly.

 

[cap n chris]

Have you changed the lock?

Hunters Lodge Inn Sink will be closed for at least a month
We will advise when the cave is reopened and any revised changes in access procedure.

Probably.

 

[maxf]

Maybe someone's been flying a drone in there ?

 

[cap n chris]

the attached was a photo i took about a year after it was found - sadly all gone now...

I blame the drone flyers.

Stop stirring Duncan

 

[andrewmcleod]

Using this tragedy to lobby against gates is pathetic. Proper cave visitor management is what is needed. It's not access that needs control, it's cave visitors. Control equates to doing our very best to make sure caves are only visited by people who know how to respect them and behave in them. In this sad case we have learnt that the access process in place has, sadly, been shown to not be sufficient. We might not like being recorded and listed, but in this case it may well have deterred the perpetrators.

I was hoping to get into HLIS for SCHECC but we arrived later than planned and bailed on our planned Friday night trip - sad that I won't get to see it in its full glory now

It's frustrating that we really have no idea what the motive for this was. Without knowing why someone would decide to do it - whether its non-cavers or indeed cavers just trashing it for some stupid reason, or people stealing stal for money or themselves - it's very hard to think what the appropriate response is. Was HLIS a soft target because the key was available from the pub without having to go to a caving club to get it?

It would be a shame if every cave with easily-accessible pretties had to be leader-led - but it seems to be the only thing that always works.

 

[mikem]

The formations in the Bar Maids' bedrooms don't seem to have been affected & not all the stal in Happy Hour Highway is broken. Nothing appears to have been removed.

Someone can borrow a key from a club just as easily as they can from the pub.

Formations still get broken in leader only caves, but the rate of attrition is slower than in locked systems, which survive longer than open passages, it's a matter of deciding what is appropriate for each location.

Mike