Hunters Lodge Inn Sink Closed
- Thread starter estelle
- Start date
glyders
Member
I can understand (but not condone) someone breaking stal to steal it. I do not understand just smashing it. It also puzzles me as to why it is so localised - wouldn't someone intent on smashing things up do so as they went along?
Could it be the accidental result of someone doing something stupid - posing on someone's shoulders for a photo, whatever? Or could it have been natural - local rock movement?
The working assumption of the thread so far is most likely correct; I just wanted to throw in a couple of thoughts.
Could it be the accidental result of someone doing something stupid - posing on someone's shoulders for a photo, whatever? Or could it have been natural - local rock movement?
The working assumption of the thread so far is most likely correct; I just wanted to throw in a couple of thoughts.
Speleofish
Active member
What a pointless, stupid thing to do. I don't understand the mindset of anyone who would do this.
The Old Ruminator
Well-known member
A terrible thing but shows the value of taking photos. Of course the cynic would say it might have encouraged the damage in the first place.
cavemanmike
Well-known member
The Old Ruminator said:
most cave photo's are for personal records or club records so would'nt get banded around that much .
me thinks
Alex
Well-known member
Sorry about my statement with the gate, I was just stating a fact, that well it did not work. However, what I don't want to see is severe restricted access based on the actions of a few idiots, because that would be a knee jerk reaction, I don't even think the cave should be closed unless its absolutely essential to the repairs. It would almost be as bad as Trump banning all Muslims from entering America due to what one terrorist did who claims to be a Muslim. Its the same here, these cave terrorists claim to be cavers but clearly they are not as cavers would never do that. These guys are jerks who can successfully navigate crawling passages.
My suggestion, keep the current access but provide I.D. to get the key so you know who was in there, of course now you have data protection laws to contend with.
All I ask is that you please don't make everyone else suffer loss of access due to these c***s.
My suggestion, keep the current access but provide I.D. to get the key so you know who was in there, of course now you have data protection laws to contend with.
All I ask is that you please don't make everyone else suffer loss of access due to these c***s.
Clive G
Member
Vandalism occurred in the entrance passages of Ogof Craig a Ffynnon, up to the First Boulder Choke, in May 1986, when wads of rolled up magazines were burnt as flares by one or more intruding non-cavers and an axe used to break a number of thick stalagmites into pieces. The locked gate to the cave, that had so far done a satisfactory job of helping protect the formations, had been forced open.
The damage - 'Gross destruction of formations in Craig-a-Ffynnon' - was reported in Descent (71), July/August 1986, p.8. On this occasion it was felt that the removal of natural obstacles, such as the original squeezes and nasty duck, had played a contributory part in allowing non-caver-vandals access to the delicate natural features.
I'm very sad to hear that Hunter's Lodge Inn Sink has recently also suffered damage to the formations in the cave. Is the means of breaking the stals evident or, on the basis of the localised damage some distance inside the cave, could they have shattered under their own weight through strong vibrations being transmitted through the rock, from drilling or blasting operations taking place somewhere in the vicinity?
The damage - 'Gross destruction of formations in Craig-a-Ffynnon' - was reported in Descent (71), July/August 1986, p.8. On this occasion it was felt that the removal of natural obstacles, such as the original squeezes and nasty duck, had played a contributory part in allowing non-caver-vandals access to the delicate natural features.
I'm very sad to hear that Hunter's Lodge Inn Sink has recently also suffered damage to the formations in the cave. Is the means of breaking the stals evident or, on the basis of the localised damage some distance inside the cave, could they have shattered under their own weight through strong vibrations being transmitted through the rock, from drilling or blasting operations taking place somewhere in the vicinity?
thank you to those people who've sent messages to help or given us trip information which is helping perhaps pinpoint time better. It does seem that some or all of the damage occurred before the 16th Feb as several trips in February have verified having seen the photos. If anyone went there earlier than that and can verify either way whether they saw broken stal or it was still ok that would be a great help.
The damage due to it's location really cannot be anything other than a deliberate action really. Closure of the cave is necessary if we wish to try and salvage what we can from the broken stal to try and repair as much as possible. It will be up to the landlord when he chooses to reopen it and what access requirements he has going forwards.
The damage due to it's location really cannot be anything other than a deliberate action really. Closure of the cave is necessary if we wish to try and salvage what we can from the broken stal to try and repair as much as possible. It will be up to the landlord when he chooses to reopen it and what access requirements he has going forwards.
Wayland Smith
Active member
I wonder what J-Rats thoughts and actions would have been? :bow:
ZombieCake
Well-known member
A few thoughts / observations:
> Is it possible that it was a catastrophic accident and people are now in hiding of fear of retribution? If so they should 'fess up and be treated accordingly, and perhaps spared the wicker man or whatever is used in Priddy these days.
> How would a rogue key get out there?
> If mindless yobbos, how did they get there if gated and & locked? Is there a bypass to slip the lock or some other mechanism?
> How easy are repairs?
> CCTV has been invented, would a motion sensor activated system (with IR at night) be useful to monitor actual as opposed to thought access?
> Is it possible that it was a catastrophic accident and people are now in hiding of fear of retribution? If so they should 'fess up and be treated accordingly, and perhaps spared the wicker man or whatever is used in Priddy these days.
> How would a rogue key get out there?
> If mindless yobbos, how did they get there if gated and & locked? Is there a bypass to slip the lock or some other mechanism?
> How easy are repairs?
> CCTV has been invented, would a motion sensor activated system (with IR at night) be useful to monitor actual as opposed to thought access?
cap n chris
Well-known member
Unlikely.
Easily.
What if the cave wasn't locked because the padlock was incorrectly secured after an earlier trip by other people.
Very difficult. Certainly worth concerted efforts though.
1984.
Easily.
What if the cave wasn't locked because the padlock was incorrectly secured after an earlier trip by other people.
Very difficult. Certainly worth concerted efforts though.
1984.
mrodoc
Well-known member
Reminds me of when one of my daughter's friends walked into one of the stals on the main drag. I found it on the floor on the way out. JRat wasn't impressed when I told him but Pete Rose and I spent some time repairing it with Milliputs (having to put up with on line mockery of the repair in the process). You won't see it now as somebody on a cave diving trip walked into again several months later and JRat gave up at that point. The damage in the images seems more deliberate than accidental but I could be wrong.
Duncan S
New member
It's deliberate...
A lot of damage was well outside the clearly taped route, and the taped route is the obvious route through the chamber. There is no way this was accidental.
Best way to describe the damage is like someone used a baseball bat through the formations.
Words cannot convey the feelings in the group last Wed evening, or the anger in the Hunters afterwards.
A lot of damage was well outside the clearly taped route, and the taped route is the obvious route through the chamber. There is no way this was accidental.
Best way to describe the damage is like someone used a baseball bat through the formations.
Words cannot convey the feelings in the group last Wed evening, or the anger in the Hunters afterwards.
mrodoc
Well-known member
When I was in Oz some years back and caving with the Western Australian Group, Ian Collette told me they took a foreign caver into a system that was nicely decorated. Confronted by a bank of straws he took a piece of wood and swept it through. 'Why on earth would you do that?' they said (or something similar). The response was something along the lines 'I like ze tinkling sound zey make'. I asked what they did about it. They said 'We left him by the roadside after the trip'. Remember this is Western Australia.
