Mines/quarries vs. Natural Caves

[Jagman]

Anyone got a sound theory as to why some prefer mines and some caves, but more to the point why is it so few of us are into both?

Just about everybody I know is strongly into one but not the other :?

Answers on apostcard.... or post here if you prefer.

 

[paul]

For me caves are natural, often have beautiful formations, often have loevely streamways and are usually in picturesque locations like mountains, crags, etc.

For me mines are man-made (although they often break into natural passage), are usually muddy, usually involve "hanging-death" and/or very dodgy ladders, belays, etc. and are often in old industrial locations (but not always) like quarries, abandoned factories, etc.

Some friends of mine are very into mines and enjoy "exploring" and opening up old abandoned passages. There are descriptions and surveys but it isn't "exploration" it is simply gaining access to known mine passage which has benn blocked for some reason.

Caves give you the possibility to enter passage where nobody has been before.

Of course I can see the attraction of the industrial archaeology, but give me caves anyday over mines!

 

[cap n chris]

Mines are easy to walk around but dangerous as hell `cos they collapse. Underground walking for miles = going out for a long walk at night.

Therefore I prefer caves `cos although they're harder to make progress through, they don't kill you like a big kerplunk. And they've got waterfalls and pretty formations and slides and other fun stuff.

 

[darkplaces]

I prefer the industrial archaeology of mines, quarrys & bunkers and the effect people had on the earth is interesting. I would disagree with paul, to the person going in its 'exploration' to them, your exploring something many have visited in the past, but maybe only very few have been in since. Some places are time locked with interesting artifiacts. The engineering involved is amazing.

Caves are yes pritty and natrual but for me lack the features, the man made chip marks and tend to be a bit crawly. I'v only done a couple of caves though.

Sounds like Cap 'n Chris found a sunken playground!

 

[dunc]

I prefer caves, good old nature knew what she was doing!

I don't mind visiting mines as long as they have some interest value - artifacts/general archaeological features, or pitches, or even a bit of crawling.. Its nice to walk but sometimes in mines it goes on for far too long..

 

[Cave_Troll]

of course Peak District is mostly made up of old mines that intersect natural.

 

[tubby two]

Caves, got to be the water- just awesomley powerful to think your in a huge natural water pipe that can often fill to the roof, like when you find a huge tree trunk thats way bigger than what you seem to have just come through to get there.... kinda scary but kinda awesome.

but then mines are also quite mint, brewery shaft being a phenomenal pitch with some right wicked stuff at the bottom.

tt.

 

[pisshead]

i've done mostly caving, but have nothing against mines exactly, but I don't like putting myself in massive danger (i.e. the bottom of Odin mine). I guess I like natural stuff - it's pretty, and what's wrong with a bit of crawling - where's the challenge if it's not hard work??

 

[cap n chris]

where's the challenge if it's not hard work??

I agree. It's also more satisfying `cos you've worked for it. Mind you there is some work I do not enjoy - like being squashed until bones crack.

 

[darkplaces]

we goina go down the route of caves are better, mines are crap route? I hope not. They are just different, not better or worse just different.

You can have lots of crawls and hard to reach things in mines or quarrys. Jagman will recount the curse of the 10 crawls in some mine up north. Even box has a couple of crawls!

Digging - You can have lots of digging fun in mines, finding then opening passage ways, opening lost and forgotten mine entrances can be lots of fun and include tonns of mud and water just like caves. I'v done a bit of cave
digging at Shute Shelv and Carcas Cave and I conclude very little actual difference when you get down and dirty.

Pitches/vertical - Some mines which have had entrances closed can only be reached via SRT in a shaft or in multi level mines inside shafts have to be SRTed.

Waterfalls - A streaming torrent of water spashing over an old shute in carrock mine as you climb the multi ladder stages into the stopes to the next level up. You can have lots of water and fully flooded mines, for the mine diver!

Formations - Form in mines no different to caves, just less time so the formations tend to be smaller but still perfectly formed and pritty. A 4ft thick quartz vein, all shiny and sparkly wet, thats pritty.

Yes mines have dangers, but caves have dangers too, I sense a little over confidence with how caves are natually supported which is good but not infallable.

... Hang on so if they are so simular like I have just described how come I started saying they are different and how come as Jagman started people tend to like one or the other but not often both... I'v lost the plot.

where's the challenge if it's not hard work??

Totally aggree, anyone pushing past what they thought personally was unreachable should be very proud and think, 'right next challenge'! We all have our own levels of ability.

 

[Jagman]

:shock: mmmh, the ten Crawls, does'nt bother most people that much but when you're 6 feet tall and 18stone its a bit tight. I've been through tighter but not in shale
Personally I find a several hundred yard drive through hard rock done by drilling and blasting something incredible, or 100's of tons of deads stacked on a drystone arch, or a 30foot diameter waterwheel underground simply awesome.
And as for seeing roads big enough to drive around 150 feet down in the bedrock

Or how about 200feet of ladders set on pine logs wedged into shaft sides? or chain ladders descending 750feet in a mine 2000feet deep top to bottom :shock:

One thing interesting though, many of those into natural caves seem to believe mines more dangerous but cave rescue seems to be far more common than mines :roll: Maybe, as one theory was put to me, the amount of mine explorers that will dig or SRT etc is very small compared to cavers (perhaps because of the associated dangers?)

 

[cap n chris]

the amount of mine explorers that will dig or SRT etc is very small compared to cavers

Certainly it makes sense that few people are digging in mines since there's very little likelihood that by digging you'll find more mine whereas by digging in caves there is a possibility that you will discover further bits of cave.

 

[bubba]

I like both - some of the best trips I've done (e.g. JH to Peak and Croesor to Rhosydd) have been mines.

Also, I still remember my amazement of squeezing through loads of nasty crawls in the Dynamite Series in Carlswark to come out into some ancient mine passage with (don't remember the exact date now) "1845" carved into the walls by the miners.

Also, seeing the soot marks and bits of clay pipes left by the old miners in Moorfurlong mine was pretty cool.

But if I had to choose I guess I'd go with natural caves - not exactly sure why but I think there's something special about being where nature has spent millions of years carving it's path through the rock. And they are generally nicer to look at.

I usually find old mines pretty spooky for some reason, whereas caves have a different vibe to them.

 

[Cave_Troll]

I usually find old mines pretty spooky for some reason, whereas caves have a different vibe to them.

Agreed, however Los Phantasmos in Coventosa is like walking through a tomb....

 

[darkplaces]

the amount of mine explorers that will dig or SRT etc is very small compared to cavers

Certainly it makes sense that few people are digging in mines since there's very little likelihood that by digging you'll find more mine whereas by digging in caves there is a possibility that you will discover further bits of cave.

Not realy, miners had a habbit of backfilling old, unwanted tunnels so digging in the right place can open up a totally new very old passageway closed for 100s of years.