More questions on Bradwell Catchment
- Thread starter T pot 2
- Start date
Not at the moment. Some individuals have expressed interest in attending and I believe the guest speakers are going to be there. I am hopeful that it will be an informative event. If any of you guys can help out on the day it will ensure that registration and feeding the expected masses run smoothly.
T pot
T pot
SamT
Moderator
AR said:
Ditto, speaking to a few folk in the pub, they are not particularly interested in attending unless there is some sort of aim or goal whereby post symposium, something actually happens and there is some progress or project that is born out of the day ( rather than if it just turns out to be a day of general discussion and chat about the caves and mines around bradwell).
For me, the biggie is a more detailed understanding of the hydrology of the catchment. So the symposium would be a chance to share and consolidate what we already know, identify areas of question and then make a plan to conduct more tests to fill in the gaps and question marks.
Other items
: Surveys - this thread alone has precipitated the start of the gathering of data to hopefully collate an catchment wide 3d survex model akin to Moose's (et al) Castleton one.
: Access and land ownership, though I think that could just go round in circles and I'm not sure any progress would be made.
Other than those topics, I cant think of anything practical to talk about. That's not to say that I wouldn't find a day learning about the mining history interesting etc. I guess a round up of the history of exploration in the catchment might be of use - i.e. some sort of structured pr?cis or overview about which holes have been explored and when and by who etc.
pwhole
Well-known member
My primary interest is in trying to better understand the formations of the phreatic systems we know to exist under Bradwell Moor/ Moss Rake and how they interplay with the mines - and where all the water went. It's still unclear (and probably unlikely) that any of the Bradwell soughs extended as far up the hill as the top of Hartle Dale/Hallam's Venture Mine/Sidebottom's quarry. Give the water-wear and phreatic passage we've seen in Raddlepits (and the probable similarities in Hugh Hill Grove/Rake Head from what I've heard), it suggests there is a quite a large-scale system, probably still active at depth, which feeds into Bagshaw. Possibly some Castleton-derived water travels SE across the moor edge to join here too.
I was always amazed how dry it was down there, and yet the walls in places indicate massive downward flow, probably through surface fissures, going straight through backfilled floors. It seems the miners were often oblivious or uninterested in speleology unless it was to their advantage (access/drainage/stacking space/ore processing), and so often may not have felt it sufficiently interesting to mention natural features. The exception being Dan Rose's 'Mosrake Head' survey of 1754, which shows a huge feature named 'Compas of the Oapnes' ('Extent of the Caverns') on the west side of the engine shaft, which would be close to the current wall. If it's as large as it appears, I would guess that there may well be a similar set of vein cavities on Moss Rake as there are on New Rake, Faucet Rake, Longcliffe, etc.
My problems is that apart from Raddlepits, I've been down very little else around there - Long Rake was closed just as I was about to go down, never seen Batham Pot, Shaft 'A', etc. So I'm wary of drawing too many conclusions from only my fragmentary evidence - my hope is that others with more experience have further or better evidence from other sites that can build up a more accurate picture.
I was always amazed how dry it was down there, and yet the walls in places indicate massive downward flow, probably through surface fissures, going straight through backfilled floors. It seems the miners were often oblivious or uninterested in speleology unless it was to their advantage (access/drainage/stacking space/ore processing), and so often may not have felt it sufficiently interesting to mention natural features. The exception being Dan Rose's 'Mosrake Head' survey of 1754, which shows a huge feature named 'Compas of the Oapnes' ('Extent of the Caverns') on the west side of the engine shaft, which would be close to the current wall. If it's as large as it appears, I would guess that there may well be a similar set of vein cavities on Moss Rake as there are on New Rake, Faucet Rake, Longcliffe, etc.
My problems is that apart from Raddlepits, I've been down very little else around there - Long Rake was closed just as I was about to go down, never seen Batham Pot, Shaft 'A', etc. So I'm wary of drawing too many conclusions from only my fragmentary evidence - my hope is that others with more experience have further or better evidence from other sites that can build up a more accurate picture.
Rob
Well-known member
In an attempt to add some material to the "symposium" we've started a Bradwell survex Master file. This is so far only Baggers plus Raddlepits, with the main other caves/mines just marked as entrances. The hope will be that more data can be provided/collected an added in time.
For now it can be downloaded from here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gzi65itht4k1uil/Bradwell_Master.3d?dl=0
As it is all part of a bigger picture, it can also be viewed here as part of a main Peak Master file.
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=20020.0
For now it can be downloaded from here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gzi65itht4k1uil/Bradwell_Master.3d?dl=0
As it is all part of a bigger picture, it can also be viewed here as part of a main Peak Master file.
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=20020.0
All
I have confirmation that we will have three guest speakers these will be Dr John Gun of the Limestone Research Group, Tony Marsden and Jim Rieuwerts. I'm hoping that Rob will do a spot on the Baggers / Raddlepits survex survey data. There are other speakers that will do a stint but there are also a few others that have expressed a desire to speak but I have not as yet received any e mails to this effect. I am also hoping to have a surprise speaker but this as not verified.
Mike Higgins
DCA Newsletter Editor / Publications Officer as stated that he will either put a PDF or a written together for future publication if speakers put written versions of their talks together to help him.
Below is a rough format for the day
09.00 Registration
10.30 speakers start (in periods of 15 mins each) unless time allows for more
12.30 break for refreshments
13.30 speakers resume (in periods of 15 mins each) unless time allows for more
15.30 recap and any other questions
16.00 Thoughts on access and the way forward
17.00 close
If there are any thoughts on changes to the above mail me.
Tea and coffee will be on demand and lunch will be Chillie with fajitas and vegetable soup
Hope this suits most folk.
techno gear at the moment are data projector and white screen
See you all there
T pot
I have confirmation that we will have three guest speakers these will be Dr John Gun of the Limestone Research Group, Tony Marsden and Jim Rieuwerts. I'm hoping that Rob will do a spot on the Baggers / Raddlepits survex survey data. There are other speakers that will do a stint but there are also a few others that have expressed a desire to speak but I have not as yet received any e mails to this effect. I am also hoping to have a surprise speaker but this as not verified.
Mike Higgins
DCA Newsletter Editor / Publications Officer as stated that he will either put a PDF or a written together for future publication if speakers put written versions of their talks together to help him.
Below is a rough format for the day
09.00 Registration
10.30 speakers start (in periods of 15 mins each) unless time allows for more
12.30 break for refreshments
13.30 speakers resume (in periods of 15 mins each) unless time allows for more
15.30 recap and any other questions
16.00 Thoughts on access and the way forward
17.00 close
If there are any thoughts on changes to the above mail me.
Tea and coffee will be on demand and lunch will be Chillie with fajitas and vegetable soup
Hope this suits most folk.
techno gear at the moment are data projector and white screen
See you all there
T pot
> I am now in aposition to present the format of sundays meeting
>
> The general aims and topics up for discussion are :-
>
> 1) Hydrology and dye tracing
>
> 2) Survex platform data
>
> 3) Access and Insurance Bcra / Dca and project funding
>
> 3) Recording of known open caves and reseurgences / mine workings shafts etc. By photographing and fixing with a GPS coordinate to affix to survex data
>
> 4) Surveying of what is open at the moment
>
> 5) Sough outflows, plotted lengths and conjected headings along the rakes et al J Rieuwerts / N kirkam.
>
> 6) The conjectured connection Moss Rake and Dirtlow Rake / Peak Cavern/ Krondstat sough
>
> 7) Possible digging sites
>
> 8) Recording of information in a data file or cloud open for contributors in the future
>
> 9) General thoughts of those present on matters pertaining to the above that have been missed.
>
> Aan outline of speakers below
>
> 0900 registration / meet and greet
>
> 10.00 Introduction to set out the above goals
>
> 10.30 Rob Eavis and Sam T survex presentation
>
> 11.00 Professor John Gunn Hydrology and dye testing
>
> 12.30 Lunch
>
> 13.30 Mark Harwood Geophysics
>
> 14.30 Access and Insurance Ideas / BCRA, DCA assistance ?
>
> 14.00 Raddlepits presentation P Wolstenholme
>
> 15.00 General discussion concerning the co ordination of data gathering
>
> 16.00 Ways forward
>
> 17.00 Close
>
> After that the Red Lion
>
> The afternoon seems to be a little sparse but I do not know if
J Riuewerts is attending as to yet. So the timing of the speakers may change.
>
> Please note that there will be a ?3.00 entrance fee to cover the hire of the hall, tea, coffee and lunch provided
> Tpot
>
> The general aims and topics up for discussion are :-
>
> 1) Hydrology and dye tracing
>
> 2) Survex platform data
>
> 3) Access and Insurance Bcra / Dca and project funding
>
> 3) Recording of known open caves and reseurgences / mine workings shafts etc. By photographing and fixing with a GPS coordinate to affix to survex data
>
> 4) Surveying of what is open at the moment
>
> 5) Sough outflows, plotted lengths and conjected headings along the rakes et al J Rieuwerts / N kirkam.
>
> 6) The conjectured connection Moss Rake and Dirtlow Rake / Peak Cavern/ Krondstat sough
>
> 7) Possible digging sites
>
> 8) Recording of information in a data file or cloud open for contributors in the future
>
> 9) General thoughts of those present on matters pertaining to the above that have been missed.
>
> Aan outline of speakers below
>
> 0900 registration / meet and greet
>
> 10.00 Introduction to set out the above goals
>
> 10.30 Rob Eavis and Sam T survex presentation
>
> 11.00 Professor John Gunn Hydrology and dye testing
>
> 12.30 Lunch
>
> 13.30 Mark Harwood Geophysics
>
> 14.30 Access and Insurance Ideas / BCRA, DCA assistance ?
>
> 14.00 Raddlepits presentation P Wolstenholme
>
> 15.00 General discussion concerning the co ordination of data gathering
>
> 16.00 Ways forward
>
> 17.00 Close
>
> After that the Red Lion
>
> The afternoon seems to be a little sparse but I do not know if
J Riuewerts is attending as to yet. So the timing of the speakers may change.
>
> Please note that there will be a ?3.00 entrance fee to cover the hire of the hall, tea, coffee and lunch provided
> Tpot
aardgoose
Member
If anyone is interested or finds it useful, I have put the Bradwell and Peak Survex models on my work in progress 3d cave web viewer at http://thedca.org.uk/3d/.
Just added this week is the option to display tiled terrain (accessed from the menu or hit the X key, (patience required, the models are from 2MB to 14MB and the terrain tiles are 1MB.
The current terrain is from OS 50m resolution data and where available EA 2m LIDAR data. Requires IE11/Chrome/Edge/Firefoxi. May eat your first born.
Just added this week is the option to display tiled terrain (accessed from the menu or hit the X key, (patience required, the models are from 2MB to 14MB and the terrain tiles are 1MB.
The current terrain is from OS 50m resolution data and where available EA 2m LIDAR data. Requires IE11/Chrome/Edge/Firefoxi. May eat your first born.
pwhole
Well-known member
Sadly Jim R is not 100% guaranteed now - he says he's not feeling too well at the moment, and at 81 I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he says if his situation improves he will certainly do his best. In the meantime he's going through his Bradwell files this afternoon, and if he finds any nuggets he's not previously mentioned to me, he'll let me know later today.
